troubles with HRE

[Hasta]

Hello all, I've been playing this game for a while and i think i get the hang of it however somewhere around 1150 i get eaten up by the HRE who is revoking my counties 1 by 1.
How do i prevent that?

I've been starting as the count of Zeeland (i live there in real life and i wanted to start as a count) i tried the game as a bigger realm and had no problems finishing it but as a count it is hard.
My first problem in Zeeland is the dutchy of flanders going independant constantly so what i try to do is nab 1 or 2 counties and then swear fealthy to the HRE but the HRE is revoking my counties constantly i don't even have the time to get a duchy from either Holland or Flanders before i am dead.
If i start and immidiatly swear fealthy to HRE i manage to get the dutchy of holland but by the time i get that soon the HRE starts to revoke stuff again.
how can i build a small County into a Duchy without getting county's revoked before i manage that first step?

regards, Hasta

 

[grumphie]

probelm is youre directly under the emperor. if you hold counties outside your de jure area, your liege gets a plot to revoke it. as your de jure area as a count is just you main holding, all counties can be easly plot revoked, especially considering the emperor needs to get only a single supporter to utterly crush you.

if you want to expand in the HRE until you can grab a duchy directly under the emperor, you need to be smart. best tactic probaly is saving up a stash of gold, get claims on half the counties of a uncreated duchy and quickly grab all those counties with mercs and create the ducal title. bit less effective one is marrying a claimant to a duchy, pressing her/his claim, and wait for your heir to inherit(can be sped up b assasinating someone rich, as chances are youll be counterassasinated, after which your heir can assasinate the duchess/duke.

once you get a decent amount of manpower and counties it shoudnt matter too much. yes, you can get the occasional revokation but nothing too bad.

 

[Comradebot]

The problem is, being a foreign minority is a pain (though a fun pain, as my games in the HRE have been as a Pommeranian and an Occitan, and my one game with the ERE has been as a Bulgarian). The foreigner penalty can hurt, though it shouldn't be too bad as I think Dutch and German are at least in the same cultural group.

Odds are, the Kaiser simply doesn't like you, and the foreigner penalty is only part of that. It'd probably be a smart move to educate your heir with a focus on Diplomacy, and send your chancellor to try and improve relations with the Kaiser. It'll mean sacrificing fabricating claims, but all you need is a marriage or two to get the claims you'll need to expand a bit (though it may be a longer term process). Being a minority is difficult, but hardly impossible. Once you've got a decent powerbase, you can hand some titles off to vassals which will prevent the Kaiser from yanking them out of your realm.

But, as a minority, your goal should ultimately be independence (and as a Dutchmen, the Kingdom of Frisia). If you can keep the Kaiser off your back (again, try to have rulers who rock at diplomacy and have your chancellor convince the Kaiser you're the shit), you can start to work towards forming Frisia from within the Empire. When the time comes for independence, wait until you can start the faction yourself, make sure the current Kaiser isn't beloved by all mankind, and start sending your spymaster out to scheme to convince all the other powerful vassals its time to leave the HRE. You'll always run the risk of having titles revoked under a foreign liege, but you also don't want to bail on the HRE if you're still leaving them with enough power to press their claims against you. Convincing Bohemia, any remaining Italians/Occitans/Franks, and whichever German duchies end up dominating Germany to bail with you can make it very simple... heck, last time I demanded independence (as the King of Pomerania, with the Kings of Bohemia and Lotharangia part of the faction), the Kaiser gave it up without a war.

 

[JonStryker]

The jure area of a count is only his main holding? What?

Okay, basically it's true: if you hold more than one duchy as duke or county as count the ruler will gain the possibility to start a revocation plot against you. If you hold a county within a duchy held by the overlord he always gets a plot to revoke it.

The problem might be that you are of a foreign culture and thus the emperor prioritizes you when he wants to revoke stuff. The best way might really to stay within a duchy and then quickly take it for yourself.

As a German count with multiple counties / duke with multiple duchies I never had that problem.
I always thought that revoking stuff in big realms is equally difficult for the AI and for the player. But then again the AI most likely doesn't have a problem with inviting 50+ people to a plot ^^

 

[Hasta]

I tried it with another county but then german and it wasn't a problem seems that Zeeland is a problem on itself