trouble with tribal-governance since the patch and conclave

[kmh42]

I have trouble with tribal-governance since the patch and conclave.

The main problem I have is the lack of documentation. The wiki page doesn't cover those topics enough. There were obviously changes with taxes, levy and Tribal Organization (TO) but I found no info in the patch notes or in the tooltips.

EDIT: Maybe I will write my first wiki page when more people confirme my infos.

Tribal Organization:
EDIT: I edit much of this later so I do not present wrong information!

Min TO works like before. It just gives +5 Vassal Opinion (VO)

Low TO gives -5 VO, it unlocks Empowered and War Council which gives +4 VL. Also Low Centralization gets unlocked.
(Strange thing is I can imminently change another law without cooldown, even TO, but its need to approved from the council)

Medium TO gives -10 VO, it makes the council vote on granting and revocations which gives another +4 VL. Also Medium Centralization get unlocked.

High TO gives -20 VO, it makes the council vote on imprisonment, execution and banishment which gives another +4 VL. Also High Centralization get unlocked.
(Before conclave and 2.5 you couldn't call you tribal vassals to arms anymore. But they provided levy)

Max TO is mostly just to go for feudal/republic. I gives -30 VO and no VL

Vassal Obligations:
Dose anyone now how the Tribal Obligation influence a Tribal ruler? I don't.

Elective Gavelkind makes some de jure vassals independent. I played a 867 game and conquered all Norge (Norwegian). After my ruler died my lands got distributed between some hires. One kindsman got a de jure Jarldom of Norge but got independent.
Later I was Emperor of Scandinavia, king of Norge and Svipjod (Sweden). Again my title were distributed after death but the king of Svipjod go independent again. Is this WAD or a bug?

EDIT: I looks like this is WAD, but with the now lowered Opinion Modifiers is happens more frequently. It is still not documented!

 

[Vicodin_Addict]

Alright here's what it is :

From what I've learned from playing Bjorn Ironside of Svitjod before, here's some idea for you to consider :

1. Everytime you upped the Tribal Organization it means that you allowed a Council to vote for another decision, eg : Low Tribal Org unlock Empowered and War Council, Medium unlocks the Imprisonment and Banishment, until Absolute TO where every single decision you made from war declaration to distributing titles are voted by the council, so if 1 decision increase VL by +2 it means in the end you gonna end up with roughly +16 VL AND it will stay like that even when you adopting feudalism or found MR.

Advice : Stay in limited TO, that way you have absolute grip of DoW, and pretty much everything, council won't block you especially the Glory Hunter ones and there's sweet +5 VO, once you reformed the religion you can upped the TO without much hassle because it doesnt affect them anymore and only took 10 years to go from limited to absolute (limited to low is instant and you can immediately goes to Medium with Council vote).

2. Elective Gavelkind works like this, the chosen successor will inherit the top tier titles, whereas your secondary and tertiary titles goes to another legitimate child, and remember if you're already a kingdom, your successor only inherit your primary duchy counties which means if your primary duchy is Ostlandet, he will inherit almost everything on its de jure duchy unless you got many many kids. And also IIRC, the one in 2nd, 3rd in line and so on can choose to BECOME INDEPENDENT without needs to goin into war against his family.

Advice : If you got many kids, dont expand too much outside de-jure of your kingdoms.

Hope that helps.

 

[kmh42]

Thx for the advise but i have no problem in managing my tribal realm.

My main issue is the lack of information. Most of those infos i found out and you represent are nowhere listed. Not in the wiki or in the game.
Also the changes of TO are nowhere listed. There are no patch-notes or something. Now TO is useless till you get feudal which is a little bit boring.
sidenote: I have to admit, levy from tribal vassals which don't care about raised levy are a little bit OP when raiding.

And also IIRC, the one in 2nd, 3rd in line and so on can choose to BECOME INDEPENDENT without needs to goin into war against his family.

Is this really a feature or a bug do you know that? Dose this just apply on tribal rulers or all?

 

[Vicodin_Addict]

No, if you clicked the Medium TO for instance it will inform you which Council type will be applied and other additional information of what obligation law unlocked when you passed the law.

The Wiki currently is not updated with info of the current patch, so there's little information there I believe.

Is this really a feature or a bug do you know that? Dose this just apply on tribal rulers or all?

I believed it also affect feudal gov who still uses Elective Gavelkind as the Succession Law aside from tribal gov of course, and it is WAD. If you explore around the forum, there is many cases like this, and you sir is not the 1st

 

[kmh42]

The extended VL comes from the council law and has nothing to do with the TO. Now some thing are clear.
In the case the gavelkind thing is WAD, there is just one thing left:
Why do tribal vassals no longer provide levy at high TO

 

[kmh42]

I believed it also affect feudal gov who still uses Elective Gavelkind as the Succession Law aside from tribal gov of course, and it is WAD. If you explore around the forum, there is many cases like this, and you sir is not the 1st

I think it's now more of a thing because it's controlled my opinion if a ruler go independent. And conclave lowered opinions so it makes sense.
Another thing clear! Thx

 

[Vicodin_Addict]

The extended VL comes from the council law and has nothing to do with the TO. Now some thing are clear.
In the case the gavelkind thing is WAD, there is just one thing left:
Why do tribal vassals no longer provide levy at high TO

No, they are related. If you increase the TO, another council will be applied, so its tied between TO, Council and the Vassal Limit, unless of course it's different if you increase/decrease the Council Power manually.

I believe its a compensation of calling Tribal vassals to war, before patch if you applied High/Absolute TO they can't no longer be called to war and provide levies instead.
Now its different, regardless of the current TO, your vassal can be called to war at anytime, unless they declined it.

 

[kmh42]

I updated the OP to present the new infos.

I believe its a compensation of calling Tribal vassals to war, before patch if you applied High/Absolute TO they can't no longer be called to war and provide levies instead.
Now its different, regardless of the current TO, your vassal can be called to war at anytime, unless they declined it.

LOL! I think its the other way around. Levy from vassal which don't mind about raised levy are too over powered, especially at raiding.

 

[Vicodin_Addict]

LOL! I think its the other way around. Levy from vassal which don't mind about raised levy are too over powered, especially at raiding.

Yes, you're right. However it only applied to Offensive Pagan (Germanic, Tengri, Aztecs). Defensive Pagan, Christian, and Muslim Tribal do mind if their levies being raised
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