Trouble in the Iberian Peninsular

[Ironside121]

This is why I love EU4. Every campaign can have something completely different happen.

 

[TwigTheSloth]

Agreeing with this thread. Morocco and the Berbers in general have seemed slightly too powerful for many patches now, starting with the one that added Institutions, and it's been slowly building up to the point that the Reconquista is no longer that reliable, and the Re-Reconquista happens quite often. I think there are a number of reasons this could be.

• Maybe it has to do with Portugal not positioning their troops correctly in Tangiers.
  
• Maybe it has to do with Granada frequently allying Tunis and Morocco, who are often friendly because they usually share a common rival in Tlemcen, who seems to be partitioned by Tunis/Morocco in most games I've run.
  
• Maybe it's related to AI frequently abandoning sieges in this patch meaning the war goal (Granada) lays untaken for most of the Castilian-Granadan war that usually occurs.
• Maybe it's the very favorable terrain in Morocco leading the Iberians into fights they can't win.
• Maybe it's related to the bug(?) where colonizers ship too many of their troops overseas, causing the Iberians to be short on men and lose the war.
• It could also simply be that Morocco effectively has the same tech penalty as the Iberians thanks to the Institution system, which represents a big change from the outcomes that were common under the old tech group system. For most of the early game they actually have zero or near-zero tech penalty because they usually get Colonialism almost immediately unless it spawns in Britain. Renaissance also spreads to Granada, maybe easier than it should, since it's a European province with over 10 development. This lets it spread quickly to nearby friendly Morocco, eliminating any early-game tech penalty as long as Granada survives to the 1450s (almost always happens now).

There's also the fact that if Portugal loses a single war against Morocco, it will likely lose Tangiers and possibly even Madeira, meaning Portgual will either no longer have an interest in taking Moroccan territory, or be unable to. The only thing that can happen at that point then, is Portugal gets conquered even more, or the status quo.
Castile, meanwhile, can be vulnerable to France or Aragon+Naples in some games (which is fine) but if you combine that with the Castilian Civil War it gives the Berbers a great opportunity to start the re-reconquista. And of course, because of how the game generally works where strong countries get stronger, there will never be a re-re-reconquista after that.

There are also some basic advantages the Berbers have. The Iberians have to deal with the rest of Europe and potential threats from the north - the Berbers have desert to the south, and usually border each other (allies), the Mamluks (will never attack Tunis because of their alliance with the Ottomans), or the Ottomans (almost always allied with Tunis). The Iberians are colonizers, but ironically this is actually a disadvantage because it draws an AI's troops away from their important home lands, and doesn't actually become very profitable until the later game if at all. The Berbers can raid coasts for free money, which they do whenever possible at the Iberians' expense, and this will continue all game unless a player steps in and conquers North Africa in order to stop the raids, or the AI permanently dedicates a fleet to protecting 2-3 trade nodes at a time from the magic teleporting pirates coming from the foreign fleets you can see but can't attack. (I hate the raiding mechanic in case you can't tell)

There's also the fact that the Iberians almost always remain Catholic and Catholicism in general is just poor. Especially compared to Islam which was buffed in the last patch. The most they can hope for is that Castille becomes Papal Controller and calls a Crusade on Morocco or Granada at the right time, which is completely RNG.

Hostile core creation cost increase on the Berber lands doesn't help either of course. But that's just a general complaint, I hate hostile CCC almost as much as I hate Raid Coasts.

All in all I'm not sure if this needs to be rebalanced or not, though I do think it's really funny that an AI can semi-reliably complete what's supposed to be a "Very Hard" achievement, the Re-Reconquista. Testament to AI programmers' ability, or a shift in game balance?

Adding to your list of reasons:
An early defeat of Castile by Aragon or an Aragonese/French alliance seems to be the catalyst outside powers to invade Iberia. In my Oman game, England took the whole north coast and Tlemcen was the one to exploit the South after Aragon and French beat Castile.
As schondetta said above , it is kind of refreshing to see divericty in a region that would only be dominated by Spain or France

 

[braunschweig1]

Castile starts in a mediocre position (for AI) with a pretty bad king and heir. Bad heir (0/0/0 I think) means Castile falls behind on tech for years since the AI is reluctant to disinherit him. If France and Aragon form an alliance or Castile rivals France, they are guaranteed to lose that war and subsequent wars, and the Iberian Wedding generally happens fairly late (I see it spawn at the earliest 1480, when it happened historically in 1469). On the other hand, in a recent game I played, Aragon allied France and took over the Peninsula by conquest, becoming one of the strongest AI Spains I've seen, albeit with no colonies. While that possibility is cool, I would much prefer it if Castile were comparably stable and strong as France; I almost never see Castile attain its historical (and extremely rapid, compared to in-game) expansion in the New World, as they tend to focus on expensive and less productive West African colonies. Without Castile or Spain acting as a strong counterweight to France, they're free to become #1 GP without much contest, and that's boring.

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

Castile/Spain focus in America (West Indies) should be predicated in the hiring of Cristopher Colombo, otherwise, they should focus in the way to India by Africa instead.

 

[comandi]

I've seen many wars with a frozen ai. When I see it happen to France, Portugal, Castille I reload. Seems to help. I have beautiful Portuguese Vasall in Africa and a realistic France and Spain. Time to wreck them!

 

[Brainblow]

It seems to happen more often than not.

 

[Pengu77]

Ya, in my Brandenburg it's just insane incompetence from the Iberian kingdoms.
Castile lost land to Aragon, but got the Iberian wedding anyway. Portugal took land in Morocco, only for rebels to spawn and then take over half of Portugal flipping the portugese land in Europe to Morocco. Aragon broke free from Castile and Morocco whiped Castile from the continent completely thereafter as Castile had no allies. And Aragon then sends his units to colonies in South America only to declare wars on Morocco when no one is left to defend the Aragonese lands. It has gone so far that I have to declare no cb wars to prevent Morocco to take over the Iberian peninsula completely as I hate the increased coring cost (

 

[Dukjlanin]

its ok I suppose iberian wedding was an accident afterall Imagine event never existed
aragon or castile can form spain themselves too and andalusia was just another potantial end point of region

Side note... the Iberian Wedding is poorly modelled imo. In reality it was more of a succession war between Portugal and Aragon over a PU with Castille, in the game's parlance... although not exactly since Castille was the senior partner.

It often doesn't fire, and when it does it doesn't trigger war with Portugal who remains a happy ally despite having a strong dyanstic claim and border frictions. Then Morrocco stomps the divided Iberians. Happens almost every game now... it is rare to see Spain form.

 

[eon47]

Are the Straits of Gibraltar still passable overland? I feel like taking that out could mitigate at least the Portugal/Morocco problem.

 

[Pengu77]

Yes, but even so Portugal just can't handle Moroccan rebels. I don't see the logic in those rebels being able to transfer to Portuguese land in Europe flipping the lands to Morocco without even a war....