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TwigTheSloth

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In my recent games since the Cradle Of Civilisation DLC, I have noticed that the power balance in Iberia will often be tipped on its head. In my Florence to Rome game (Picture below), Aragon defeated Castile 1v1 and Morocco capitalised on the Iberians' tempory weakness, eventually forming Andalusia. I was wondering if anyone else has witnessed crazy shit in Iberia recently, it is pretty cool to see the Moors strike back.
upload_2017-12-19_0-26-18.png
 
Last edited:

makaramus

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its ok I suppose iberian wedding was an accident afterall :D Imagine event never existed :p
aragon or castile can form spain themselves too and andalusia was just another potantial end point of region :)
 

Kuantum

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The moops beat Portugal maybe 80% of the time? It depends on Castile getting a PU over Aragon, if France allies Castile or not, etc...

If Castile looses to Aragon all hell breaks loose. As it should?

I did some fun runs with France, returning core provinces to Portugal and Castile that were occupied by Morocco, just to reestablish the equilibrium in Iberia.

Maybe this is happening a bit too often.

PS: Oh by the way, i never saw Andalusia also...
 

schondetta

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It a diverse enough to not be an issue. Sometimes its morroco sometimes its Granada. Sometimes its Spain sometimes its Portugal etc much better thsn it used be aka Spain 99% of the time France 1%. Now if they could do the same for the rest of the map
 

Parapluman

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Iberia does seem more dynamic nowadays. In my current game Aragon occupies the entire peninsula having completely all of Castille and Portugal.
 

Sunspawn

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It a diverse enough to not be an issue. Sometimes its morroco sometimes its Granada. Sometimes its Spain sometimes its Portugal etc much better thsn it used be aka Spain 99% of the time France 1%. Now if they could do the same for the rest of the map
Surely you mean spain 50% France 50%? Either France gets rekt and disappears or Blue Iberia.
 

nfmarque

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The moops beat Portugal maybe 80% of the time? It depends on Castile getting a PU over Aragon, if France allies Castile or not, etc...

If Castile looses to Aragon all hell breaks loose. As it should?

I did some fun runs with France, returning core provinces to Portugal and Castile that were occupied by Morocco, just to reestablish the equilibrium in Iberia.

Maybe this is happening a bit too often.

PS: Oh by the way, i never saw Andalusia also...
Moops?? I see what you did there :)
In regards with peninsula i usually see marrocos owning Algarve
 

Dakka

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Surely you mean spain 50% France 50%? Either France gets rekt and disappears or Blue Iberia.
I remember there being a couple patches where the only thing that ever was was Blueberia.

I haven’t seen the AI form Spain in quite some time. Not saying that Spain necessarily needs a buff,but Western Europe is certainly due for a map update. If I recall correctly, Iberia has only received one map change with the addition of 4-5 provinces for the region. France being the same. Compared to the changes we’ve seen in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, China, and Japan, I think that Western Europe deserves the same treatment. Not only would it make the region more interesting, but rebalance the nation’s a bit.
 

Ulfing

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Iberia has been consistently a mess for months if not over a year now. People post screenshots of Spain and I just get jealous. Aragon always breaks free before ADM10, or the wedding never files, Aragon half eats Castile, France takes half the penisular, Portugal gets wrekt by morocco or Moroccan rebels occupied Africa, Castile fails against Granada + allies + civil war and implodes.

Unless I specifically go out of my way to prop up the likeliest candidate to form Spain, I never see it and the peninsular remains a ravaged mess of bordergore.
 

Sunspawn

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I remember there being a couple patches where the only thing that ever was was Blueberia.

I haven’t seen the AI form Spain in quite some time. Not saying that Spain necessarily needs a buff,but Western Europe is certainly due for a map update. If I recall correctly, Iberia has only received one map change with the addition of 4-5 provinces for the region. France being the same. Compared to the changes we’ve seen in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, China, and Japan, I think that Western Europe deserves the same treatment. Not only would it make the region more interesting, but rebalance the nation’s a bit.
Yeah, like I said, the only way to avoid Blueberia is for France to get ganked by all their neighbors and get partitioned.
 

Casko

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I must agree that it seems that Morocco Conquers most of Portugal around 50% of the time, and they usually stay in the Iberia for better parts of 200 years depending on if Castille gets destroyed or not and how Aggressive the French are being on Morocco or not.
 

Regaccio

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Agreeing with this thread. Morocco and the Berbers in general have seemed slightly too powerful for many patches now, starting with the one that added Institutions, and it's been slowly building up to the point that the Reconquista is no longer that reliable, and the Re-Reconquista happens quite often. I think there are a number of reasons this could be.
  • Maybe it has to do with Portugal not positioning their troops correctly in Tangiers.
  • Maybe it has to do with Granada frequently allying Tunis and Morocco, who are often friendly because they usually share a common rival in Tlemcen, who seems to be partitioned by Tunis/Morocco in most games I've run.
  • Maybe it's related to AI frequently abandoning sieges in this patch meaning the war goal (Granada) lays untaken for most of the Castilian-Granadan war that usually occurs.
  • Maybe it's the very favorable terrain in Morocco leading the Iberians into fights they can't win.
  • Maybe it's related to the bug(?) where colonizers ship too many of their troops overseas, causing the Iberians to be short on men and lose the war.
  • It could also simply be that Morocco effectively has the same tech penalty as the Iberians thanks to the Institution system, which represents a big change from the outcomes that were common under the old tech group system. For most of the early game they actually have zero or near-zero tech penalty because they usually get Colonialism almost immediately unless it spawns in Britain. Renaissance also spreads to Granada, maybe easier than it should, since it's a European province with over 10 development. This lets it spread quickly to nearby friendly Morocco, eliminating any early-game tech penalty as long as Granada survives to the 1450s (almost always happens now).
There's also the fact that if Portugal loses a single war against Morocco, it will likely lose Tangiers and possibly even Madeira, meaning Portgual will either no longer have an interest in taking Moroccan territory, or be unable to. The only thing that can happen at that point then, is Portugal gets conquered even more, or the status quo.
Castile, meanwhile, can be vulnerable to France or Aragon+Naples in some games (which is fine) but if you combine that with the Castilian Civil War it gives the Berbers a great opportunity to start the re-reconquista. And of course, because of how the game generally works where strong countries get stronger, there will never be a re-re-reconquista after that.

There are also some basic advantages the Berbers have. The Iberians have to deal with the rest of Europe and potential threats from the north - the Berbers have desert to the south, and usually border each other (allies), the Mamluks (will never attack Tunis because of their alliance with the Ottomans), or the Ottomans (almost always allied with Tunis). The Iberians are colonizers, but ironically this is actually a disadvantage because it draws an AI's troops away from their important home lands, and doesn't actually become very profitable until the later game if at all. The Berbers can raid coasts for free money, which they do whenever possible at the Iberians' expense, and this will continue all game unless a player steps in and conquers North Africa in order to stop the raids, or the AI permanently dedicates a fleet to protecting 2-3 trade nodes at a time from the magic teleporting pirates coming from the foreign fleets you can see but can't attack. (I hate the raiding mechanic in case you can't tell)

There's also the fact that the Iberians almost always remain Catholic and Catholicism in general is just poor. Especially compared to Islam which was buffed in the last patch. The most they can hope for is that Castille becomes Papal Controller and calls a Crusade on Morocco or Granada at the right time, which is completely RNG.

Hostile core creation cost increase on the Berber lands doesn't help either of course. But that's just a general complaint, I hate hostile CCC almost as much as I hate Raid Coasts.

All in all I'm not sure if this needs to be rebalanced or not, though I do think it's really funny that an AI can semi-reliably complete what's supposed to be a "Very Hard" achievement, the Re-Reconquista. Testament to AI programmers' ability, or a shift in game balance? :D
 
Last edited:

Brynjar

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France, Castille and Portugal all suffers heavily from the AI changes made in 1.23. Once they start colonizing they all send (almost) all their troops overseas, but don't have anywhere near enough transports to be any kind of threat if they end up in a war in their home territories.
 

Kuantum

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France, Castille and Portugal all suffers heavily from the AI changes made in 1.23. Once they start colonizing they all send (almost) all their troops overseas, but don't have anywhere near enough transports to be any kind of threat if they end up in a war in their home territories.

I thought this was addressed in 1.24, no?