Trotsky assassination

[Hjaldrgud]

"He staked his life"

 

[Lifthrasil]

I guess no one told you that the service in the army does not count as a military history. Only the officer tradition counts as countries usually had/have mandatory service for all males aged 18. Never mind that, the point was you were making an accusation that someone does not know what military discipline means. Now you stand corrected. Now all that remains is for you to understand what extrapolation of military principle is so you could begin to understand the system the people have been talking about.

We do not have anything to disagree about, you were talking about some made up thing, completely off topic. If it was in any way connected to the story here, then yes, I would agree.

Nice prick waving contest you have there. Don't you know that arguments from personal experience are worth NOTHING in an online discussion, where everybody can be anybody?
I know this, because I can trace my family back to Sokrates, and they have all been philosophers ever since. So I'm like the super authority on the logic department.

You get the point why statements like this are worthless?

 

[Vukodav]

Nice prick waving contest you have there. Don't you know that arguments from personal experience are worth NOTHING in an online discussion, where everybody can be anybody?
I know this, because I can trace my family back to Sokrates, and they have all been philosophers ever since. So I'm like the super authority on the logic department.

You get the point why statements like this are worthless?

What you do not understand my good man is that there was no argument. He did attack my personal experience and I replied about personal experience - and that was that. It actually had no effect on the overall discussion. I wasn't the one to move the argument on the personal field, but I was the one to respond in kind. I myself am being schooled as a reserve officer (primary is physics) so when someone says that I do not know anything about military discipline and principles while being in the system and surrounded by people from it the whole life - I tend to answer to those accusations.

But I guess I should not talk about physics as well because, well, personal experience, right?

The main point was that the other person did not know a thing about military style discipline - his view on the subject was worse than that of Hitler and Stalin and it says a lot. Completely inventing a system then connecting it for some reason to Trotsky. It was explained to him over and over why such ridiculous statements hold no ground and I was accused of not knowing what a military discipline actually is.

I am sorry, but his reasoning of 'military discipline' was unacceptable even in the most inhumane of systems. The one not knowing what it is, is him. Not to mention that he thought that implementing a military style discipline means killing people in the work place for small mistakes.

It was enough for him to see any system where military discipline and principles are used, it would have taken a minute of his time. Then he would not invent Warhammer style commissars in order to argue about something and accusing a soon-to-be officer with huge family history of schooled officers for not knowing what military discipline is.

Sure, anyone can be anybody on the internet. My guess is that he is an Imperial Guard infantryman - the only way to explain those ridiculous statements. Or he just trolls.

 

[amalric de g.]

Snip

Sorry Sir, but Hitler and Stalin killed millions of people/workers, as you know we can´t discuss the point in detail, but both decided the death of others sometimes out of their mood. So the point of the other guy, of your conversation, is not so far of with his examples.

Military discipline was not needed in both regimes, the special police and the spies everywere were enough, one little hint and you booked a oneway holiday trip into a "nice" region in their countries.

And in totalitarian regimes (even today), every little weasel with a "high" enough position, tries to settle some old/new bills, or has to show his power over others.

 

[Vukodav]

Sorry Sir, but Hitler and Stalin killed millions of people/workers, as you know we can´t discuss the point in detail, but both decided the death of others sometimes out of their mood. So the point of the other guy, of your conversation, is not so far of with his examples.

We are talking about a game modifier here, not about the humanity of any system in particular. In game, those inhumane systems don't have a penalty for industry. Yet the system that Trotsky advocated, even if it would be as bad as the ones mentioned, has a negative modifier. There is simply no historical context to justify it, given the fact that we have systems in Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union that do not have them in the game.

In short:

Stalin the Butcher - no penalty
Hitler - no penalty
Trotsky - penalty

Logic? Either they all have a penalty or no one.

This is a game forum and are talking about the game. I am not interested in discussing the political opinions of individuals (I am not sure that it is even allowed on the forum).

Sure, you could justify it by saying "It is game design choice", just like supply system was destroyed and many other things got abstracted. I have no problem with that, but call it a game design choice, do not invent history in order to justify it, simple as that. Had the man said "game design choice" and not imagined a whole new system that never existed, anywhere, and twisted the whole concept of military discipline and principles of organization - the conversation would have ended by me clicking the 'Agree' button and that is it.

I just said that there is no historical justification for the said negative modifier for industry in the event of Trotsky taking power. At least not more than there is historical justification for Germany and Soviet Union under Stalin. And I was talking strictly about historical justification. I have no problem with it being a game design choice for forcing the player to make a decision, just do not use made up historical arguments to justify it.

I know that I will fix it for my game for sure so I do not care for the gameplay reason. I was just talking about historical justification for that game design choice in particular, but for some reason the topic went sidetracked to discussing one persons twisted sense of history and military.

 

[JerkyJerry]

This is a game forum and are talking about the game. I am not interested in discussing the political opinions of individuals (I am not sure that it is even allowed on the forum).

Spot on!
Thread after thread people just can't seem to grasp that HOI is a game and real life is just that, real.
I am so looking forward to the game's release so much of this misconception between game and reality can be left unsaid.

 

[Had a dad]

well this thread seems sufficiently derailed