Tributaries accept defensive CTA. Fake news?

[schondetta]

This has been the case 100% of the time. on the DOW screen. it shows that tributaries of mine that are allies to someone im declaring typically wont accept the call. . .except that they always do . .every time. Whats more wrong here? the tool tip or the acceptance? Please let me know if its wad . Thanks!

 

[Dominion]

The fact that tributaries exist is the mistake.

On a more serious note: Throw it in the bug section. UI bugs in the DoW screen are rather common, but I'm rather confident this is a new one.

 

[Vulkandrache]

Define "new".
This shit has been annoying me for months now.

 

[Dominion]

Define "new".
This shit has been annoying me for months now.

New in that it hasn't been reported as far as I can remember.

Bug report section has been dead for a while now.

 

[bly08]

It's been in the game since 1.20/MoH. One of the many bugs that came up with the patch.

 

[schondetta]

Glad I'm not alone in my struggle

 

[Dominion]

It's been in the game since 1.20/MoH. One of the many bugs that came up with the patch.

Ye, but that doesn't mean it has been reported.
You know that tributaries are 50% exploit, 50% bugged.

Can't imagine any regular having the energy to write a list similar to what bbqftw did with vassals last year.

Atwix mentioned somewhere that they have a few new team members? Not sure. I keep recommending people to throw it in the bug section and take note if they do.
Gonna check again next patch to see if anyone reacts to anything. Maybe they finally start fixing stuff again.
But then again, it's tributaries we're talking about.

I'm dead serious about my recommendation to remove them for everyone except Ming.
Trying to fix them is like dropping a loaf of bread in the toilet and cutting off what's not edible.
Doesn't make sense.

Throw it in the thrashcan, buy a new loaf of bread. Easy as that.

 

[bly08]

Ye, but that doesn't mean it has been reported.
You know that tributaries are 50% exploit, 50% bugged.

Can't imagine any regular having the energy to write a list similar to what bbqftw did with vassals last year.

Atwix mentioned somewhere that they have a few new team members? Not sure. I keep recommending people to throw it in the bug section and take note if they do.
Gonna check again next patch to see if anyone reacts to anything. Maybe they finally start fixing stuff again.
But then again, it's tributaries we're talking about.

I'm dead serious about my recommendation to remove them for everyone except Ming.
Trying to fix them is like dropping a loaf of bread in the toilet and cutting off what's not edible.
Doesn't make sense.

Throw it in the thrashcan, buy a new loaf of bread. Easy as that.

Wait till you see what else is possible, assuming the core mechanics are unchanged for 1.25. We're going back to the dark ages.

 

[Dominion]

I already know too much for my liking and talking to Marco only made it worse.

"Yu uh, these exploits are totally acceptable. We aren't even using exploits, it's just the game mechanic that's bad"
Not like he's alone with that opinion.

The bigger part of EU4's high level community has shifted towards accepting exploits as a perfectly viable strategy because it has become an ingrained conviction that stuff like tributaries is so broken it's simply impossible for it not to be intended (or they got used to it because "it has been broken for so long, why should we avoid using it any longer?").

I can't consider any run that's using tributaries legit. It's like reversing back to 1.13 and doing a WC with infinite manpower, infinite bird mana, infinite papal points and infinite imperial authority.

It's ridiculous.

 

[bly08]

Someone can make a set of rules for what is/isn't legit but until that's done you can't assume everyone has the same assumptions.

 

[Dominion]

Someone can make a set of rules for what is/isn't legit but until that's done you can't assume everyone has the same assumptions.

I agree, but hope you can see my point in that this discussion should not even happen in the first place.
How is it possible to have a mechanic in game for over 4 patches that's so obviously messed up, screwed up beyond the point of repair, that you aren't brushing me aside with an insult when I call _the main mechanic accompanying a DLC_ an exploit?

Remember how they broke the AI to the point where I was able to place enemy units in provinces the way I wanted to the point where it felt like I had gone beyond console cheats and just activated godmode?
Took them three patches to get it into decent shape. Nowadays the AI is appropriate. Functional.

But tributaries?
Four patches and nothing.
No statement, no discussion, nobody gives a damn.
There aren't even any useful bug reports anymore.

We've given up, simple as that.


End of rant. Felt good to vent. Screw Mandate of Heaven.

 

[bly08]

The devs think new content is more important than fixing old bugs. It's the story of every game.

 

[Sharples88]

It's an incredibly common bug . I get them around half of my games. UI lying is a massive problem for EUIV.

 

[pttaylor]

This UI bug wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for a much more frustrating bug: when your tributaries honour their alliance, you can't make them tributaries again in a separate peace - the option to do so or vassalise them is greyed out, with the tool-tip erroneously claiming they're in an independence war against their ally that you declared on. Whole thing is a total mess. In my current Ming run I've had to resort to breaking the tributary relation on my enemy's allies before declaring so that I have the option to force them back under once I win the war. Shit like this adds a lot of hassle to what was meant to be a very low stress achievement run.

 

[schondetta]

This UI bug wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for a much more frustrating bug: when your tributaries honour their alliance, you can't make them tributaries again in a separate peace - the option to do so or vassalise them is greyed out, with the tool-tip erroneously claiming they're in an independence war against their ally that you declared on. Whole thing is a total mess. In my current Ming run I've had to resort to breaking the tributary relation on my enemy's allies before declaring so that I have the option to force them back under once I win the war. Shit like this adds a lot of hassle to what was meant to be a very low stress achievement run.

yes i noticed that as well. so far im lucky they accept normally afterwards but damn this is crazy. i haven't played with tributaries since MOH came out and im saddened by what i am finding

 

[Glacierfairy]

In such cases dealing with tributaries potentially joining a war against you, do not trust the tooltip at face value. Instead, calculate the acceptance values yourself. If the number is positive they will join against you, otherwise they will stay out. It is an annoying bug though nonetheless.

 

[Jorlaan]

I do not have, nor do I have any plans on getting Mandate of Heaven.
From everything I've seen and heard they are a complete disaster and I want none of it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The fact that tributaries exist is the mistake.

On a more serious note: Throw it in the bug section. UI bugs in the DoW screen are rather common, but I'm rather confident this is a new one.

As far as I know, it's "new" as of 1.20, when tributaries were introduced. It's also been reported and seen a major patch since.

Not as egregious as the UI lying about offensive coalition wars, which it has done for IRL years, but apparently on the same path.

 

[Howl]

How about the situation below?
Mexico was disloyal and immediately made an alliance with Tarascan. Then they went back to loyal.
So I'm a just real quicklike declare on Tarascan to clear their leftover alliance. There's no way that could possibly go wrong. I mean even the UI tells me everything will be fine and dandy and the UI lying to the player is just completely unheard of. Except...
Somehow it did not exactly turn out as intended.

Stuff like this makes me feel like I am not cheating for keeping a backup of my iron man savegame.

Also placement of "their" in second screenshot.

Research shows, I did actually bug report this.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Stuff like this makes me feel like I am not cheating for keeping a backup of my iron man savegame.

You aren't, you're making sure the game follows its stated rules. Doing so is blocking cheating, saying otherwise is not logically sound.