Tribal ruler: Ship maintenance too expensive

[RedBox]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently doing a 769 run and playing as a Reformed Suomenusko Tribal Finnish king. I've noticed that raising 24 of my own ships costs around 10 gold per month. Therefore, I cannot afford to go oversea raiding.

Has this always been the case? I don't remember ship maintenance being this expensive before Holy Fury came out and I've almost always played as a Tribal Finnish in the 769 run. Do I just have bad memory?

 

[prismaticmarcus]

maybe. it's always been cheaper to raise vassals' ships. i haven't raised any in HF yet.

 

[Maggotsgar]

I guess you don't usually play as Germanic Finns?

 

[Less2]

Yes, you need the reform option to really raid properly. It can still be financially viable to sail to Denmark with a 10k retinue and a commander with Siege Leader, just not a good idea to take a 1000-ship trans-Mediterranean looting spree until reformed.

 

[RedBox]

I guess you don't usually play as Germanic Finns?

Sorry, forgot to add that as a Reformed Suomenusko ruler.

Yes, you need the reform option to really raid properly. It can still be financially viable to sail to Denmark with a 10k retinue and a commander with Siege Leader, just not a good idea to take a 1000-ship trans-Mediterranean looting spree until reformed.

Can you please explain how reform helps in this matter? I'm playing as a Reformed Suomenusko ruler, and it hasn't affected the ship maintenance at all.

 

[Maggotsgar]

Sorry, forgot to add that as a Reformed Suomenusko ruler.



Can you please explain how reform helps in this matter? I'm playing as a Reformed Suomenusko ruler, and it hasn't affected the ship maintenance at all.

I think that what he means is that you should also be reformed into feudal, so that you will have a passive income to make the upkeep of ships less painful.

 

[Greene]

Sorry, forgot to add that as a Reformed Suomenusko ruler.



Can you please explain how reform helps in this matter? I'm playing as a Reformed Suomenusko ruler, and it hasn't affected the ship maintenance at all.

I think there is a doctrine that reduces ship maintenance to only 10%. Hopefully it’s not the Sons of Ragnarok one because that’s Germanic exclusive.

 

[Maggotsgar]

I think there is a doctrine that reduces ship maintenance to only 10%. Hopefully it’s not the Sons of Ragnarok one because that’s Germanic exclusive.

There is a doctrine that does that which is not Germanic exclusive, pretty sure it is called Seafaring?

 

[RedBox]

I think that what he means is that you should also be reformed into feudal, so that you will have a passive income to make the upkeep of ships less painful.

Ah, that makes sense. Still, what I'm trying to find out is if the ship maintenance has been increased.

 

[Greene]

There is a doctrine that does that which is not Germanic exclusive, pretty sure it is called Seafaring?

I think so. That’s the one you need to make sea raiding proffitable.

 

[RedBox]

I think so. That’s the one you need to make sea raiding proffitable.

So I guess ship maintenance was increased for the sake of adopting that specific doctrine?

 

[Maggotsgar]

So I guess ship maintenance was increased for the sake of adopting that specific doctrine?

Ship maintance has always been crazy high, and I cannot find anything saying that they might have increased it.

 

[Less2]

It used to be this crazy high, then it was later reduced, now it's back to high and you need a reform to get it back low.

 

[M@ni@c]

Before this expansion, every ruler that could raid had reduced ship costs. Now it has been narrowed to only rulers with Seafaring.

 

[Mauer]

Does the Slavic doctrine to allow river travel not affect ship costs? How would one go about profitably raiding with them making use of their many river paths without wasting a doctrine slot on Seafaring then?

 

[Mithradates]

Ship maintenance is pricey, but raiding should bring in way more than enough gold to cover it and net you a good profit. I'm raiding as a Berber sheikh of two counties right now and I'm not having any financial trouble at all.

I think your problem is that you're just raising too many of your ships at once. Go smaller at first until you have more gold in your treasury so you can support that many ships at a time.

 

[Serenity84]

Does the Slavic doctrine to allow river travel not affect ship costs? How would one go about profitably raiding with them making use of their many river paths without wasting a doctrine slot on Seafaring then?

It doesn't say so. Maybe it's only meant for warfare instead of raiding. A bit weird

 

[Thrake]

Ship maintenance is pricey, but raiding should bring in way more than enough gold to cover it and net you a good profit. I'm raiding as a Berber sheikh of two counties right now and I'm not having any financial trouble at all.

I think your problem is that you're just raising too many of your ships at once. Go smaller at first until you have more gold in your treasury so you can support that many ships at a time.

You also have to account for precious prestige for tribals as well as prisoners (you will want to raid main holding of dukes or higher, prisonners often turn out more profitable than raiding itself). Then republics and bishop-owned counties are pretty much free money (simply loot until you besiege a castle, at that point move to the next target). So it's not as good as it is for germanic but it can be interesting to do it opportunistically.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Sorry for the necro, but I'm looking for clarity on if this is a bug or WAD. I haven't found any newer threads on ship maintenance, and the CK2 wiki doesn't mention this either way.

Do I have this correct for the 3.0+ versions of the game? My current understanding:

• Unreformed Pagans can raid overseas (as they did pre-HF) while only paying 10% of the ship and raiding army maintenance.
• Reformed Pagans pay the full 100% ship maintenance cost UNLESS they selected the Sea-Bound or Sons of Ragnarok doctrine when they reformed.
• Tribals with an organized religion can raid (as they did pre-HF), but now they have the pay the full 100% ship maintenance cost (their armies still only cost 10%).

And does have a historical raiding culture change any of the above statements- like if I'm Norse, Berber, etc.?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this.