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Markstar

Recruit
Dec 21, 2016
9
4
Hi,

TL;DR: How is it determined which star systems can travel through other systems without going into orbit?

Long explanation:
A while ago @ninte000 posted a great thread here ("CAREER MODE: Final Score, Travel Route and thoughts") with an Excel file that contained the information which star systems can travel through other systems without going into orbit.

In another thread ("Questions about the starsystemdef_ files"), @MarkDey asked about how this list was compiled and he got the following anwer:
There's not a list of linked systems defined in game files, it just checks that the distance between any two systems is less than 30 LY
However, this is clearly incorrect and so there must be something else at work here. For example, Brisbane can go through Landmark, but Landmark can not go through Brisbane without entering the orbit.

It's important to note again that ninte000s original file is (almost) correct in that regard, so I'm really, really wondering how this was done. Here are the three options I can see how ninte000 did it and I would really appreciate it if someone could help me out on this:
  1. There is a file which lists all the connections (would be great, but unlikely).
  2. There is a another condition (or more) for traversing without going into orbit (I first assumed that there was a minimum distance condition at work, but that can't be it would still mean the list is symmetrical. However, having a minimum distance of 15LY is already filtering out many of the false positives).
  3. ninte000 compiled the list manually (I hope not as that would mean A LOT of work).

Thank you in advance for your help.


P.S.: I'm not only doing this for my own career planning, but I have also created a utility to visualize the star map. However, I can't link or upload it yet, but you may find it on reddit if you are interested. ;)
 

Retic73

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Jun 19, 2018
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For example, Brisbane can go through Landmark, but Landmark can not go through Brisbane without entering the orbit
Are you saying that if you're on Planet X and want to go to Planet Y, and the jump path calculated by the game takes you through the Bisbane and then Landmark systems, and you go straight through with just recharges at the jump points, but if you're on Planet Y and want to go to Planet X, the jump path calculated by the game does not include Landmark?
 

Markstar

Recruit
Dec 21, 2016
9
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Are you saying that if you're on Planet X and want to go to Planet Y, and the jump path calculated by the game takes you through the Bisbane and then Landmark systems, and you go straight through with just recharges at the jump points, but if you're on Planet Y and want to go to Planet X, the jump path calculated by the game does not include Landmark?
No, in your case the travel route should be the same as the optimal path between X and Y is reversible.

I am talking about starting in Brisbane and finding star system A so that Landmark is an intermediary step vs. starting in Landmark and finding a system B so that Brisbane is an intermediary step.

Edit: This is most obvious when looking at Ahlat and Hellespont: Hellespont can travel through Ahlat but not vice versa since Hellespont is an end point.
 

Icewraith

Major
May 24, 2018
610
3
There are also some systems where you should be able to take multiple paths but the game will always pick one planet.

IIRC it picks the higher skull planet.

There are definitely some planets that you can pick up as intermediaries if you’re traveling in the appropriate direction. Several in the Taurian Concordat, for instance.
 

Dark Khaos

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Nov 14, 2018
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could run NAVIGATION COMPUTER mod and just SHIFT-CLICK the route you wish to take:

<snip>
While in navigation screen:

  • F1: Toggle unvisited systems map mode
  • F2: Toggle system difficulty map mode
  • CTRL-F: System search
  • ESC: Exit map mode or search
  • Shift-Click: On system: route through this system

Custom Routes

Shift clicking a system will keep the previous route and path from the end of the previous route to the new destination. Use this for routing through systems that you want to check out (contracts, shops), but don't neccessarily want to stop at. </snip>
 

Markstar

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Dec 21, 2016
9
4
There are also some systems where you should be able to take multiple paths but the game will always pick one planet.

IIRC it picks the higher skull planet.
Hmm, picking the higher skull planet is a third option that I had not considered. I assumed it was either Euclidean distance or, for longer distances, number of jumps.
There are definitely some planets that you can pick up as intermediaries if you’re traveling in the appropriate direction. Several in the Taurian Concordat, for instance.
Yes, obviously. That's my whole point - I want to pick up as many intermediaries as possible. ;)

could run NAVIGATION COMPUTER mod and just SHIFT-CLICK the route you wish to take:
Yeah, I'm aware of this mod (now) but I assumed that it does not support the latest version. Furthermore, it feels a bit like cheating. ;)
 

Prussian Havoc

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Is your intent to also combine this work with a career run? If so, then I’m not sure what effect mods have on career runs and related achievements.
I honestly don’t think Mods invalidate Career Attempts. To me, this is in keeping with Team HBS BATTLETECH Design Philosophy.
 

Prussian Havoc

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That would be great - I’ve never tried.

I’ll probably start with just some basic mods (bug fix ones) for my next career run. Aiming for Kerensky this time!
Good luck! : )
 

Markstar

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Dec 21, 2016
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I think the discussion whether installing mods is okay for careers still to be considered legit is a bit offtopic. Personally, I like to play through a game as close to vanilla as possible before installing mods (e.g. in XCOM, I installed Long War after playing it vanilla first).

Anyways, I have now tested for the some attributes and none of them are clear indicators which route is being taken: Euclidean distance, difficulty, jump distance, maxShopItems.

Here an except from my log output:
Jamestown - Atreus Prime : best distance system: Renfield (31.020074145623827)
Jamestown - Atreus Prime : lowest jump system: Illiushin (2)
Jamestown - Atreus Prime : highest jump system: Renfield (6)
Jamestown - Atreus Prime : lowest skull system: Illiushin (1)
Jamestown - Atreus Prime : highest skull system: Renfield (4)
Jamestown - Atreus Prime : highest shop system: Illiushin Renfield (6)
Jamestown - Brisbane : best distance system: Landmark (30.039513977426463)
Jamestown - Brisbane : lowest jump system: Flannagan's Nebulea (5)
Jamestown - Brisbane : highest jump system: MacLeod's Land (9)
Jamestown - Brisbane : lowest skull system: Pinard (3)
Jamestown - Brisbane : highest skull system: Flannagan's Nebulea (5)
Jamestown - Brisbane : highest shop system: Flannagan's Nebulea MacLeod's Land (7)
Jamestown - Brockway : best distance system: Midale (39.519166236144216)
Jamestown - Brockway : lowest jump system: Midale (4)
Jamestown - Brockway : highest jump system: Renfield (6)
Jamestown - Brockway : lowest skull system: Renfield (4)
Jamestown - Brockway : highest skull system: Midale (8)
Jamestown - Brockway : highest shop system: Midale (7)
Jamestown - Bromhead : best distance system: Pinard (28.136856611924514)
Jamestown - Bromhead : lowest jump system: Flannagan's Nebulea (5)
Jamestown - Bromhead : highest jump system: MacLeod's Land (9)
Jamestown - Bromhead : lowest skull system: Pinard (3)
Jamestown - Bromhead : highest skull system: Flannagan's Nebulea (5)
Jamestown - Bromhead : highest shop system: Jansen's Hold (8)
So the mystery remains how exactly the route is actually calculated... :/