Transfers from traders downstream

[glaivemaster]

I'm putting this here because I don't know if it's a bug or not, and before I report it as one I'd like someone to give me an opportunity to explain it.

Facts to be made aware of: I am playing a converted game from CK2 (as the Persian/Zoroastrian nation of Greece). I have also downloaded the apparent fix to this conversion which was posted here.

I also realise it's difficult to explain potential problems with trade when you can't see the entire map, but the situation is thus: I control everything from Ragusa to Georgia, I control parts of the middle east, Nubia, my vassal, controls most of East Africa down to Majerteen, and Ethiopia is my protectorate in the area, with one coastal province. I have a merchant collecting in Constantinople, and a merchant with 20 Caravels forwarding trade from Alexandria. The oddity here is that I have so much power in the Gulf of Aden marked as "transfers from traders downstream":

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=216881140

It goes away when I send a merchant to collect trade:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=216881171

Anyone have any ideas? Bug? Broken game? Broken fix? I don't mind getting the extra 4 or 5 ducats, but it feels a bit cheap given how rich and powerful I already am.

Edit: not sure why the pictures don't work, but right click and open in new tab seems to be ok

 

[Slym]

Basically a fraction of the power you have in a downstream node is also sent up to the earlier node. It's really annoying me in my Huron game, no European nation has any provinces or merchants in the st. Lawrence node but they're still pulling like 4 ducats out of it just from having power in the north sea.

 

[seamus2008]

Basically a fraction of the power you have in a downstream node is also sent up to the earlier node. It's really annoying me in my Huron game, no European nation has any provinces or merchants in the st. Lawrence node but they're still pulling like 4 ducats out of it just from having power in the north sea.

Good.

 

[Invader_Canuck]

Good.

I for one cannot wait for the inevitable trade DLC that makes trade flow direction dynamic. It will be one of the most amazing DLCs.

 

[joelzhl]

This really need a hotfix so you only propagate trade power to know trade nodes.

 

[Slym]

It doesn't actually pull from unknown nodes. Denmark had power in St. Lawrence basically forever but it didn't start funneling money out of it until after 1500.

 

[glaivemaster]

Basically a fraction of the power you have in a downstream node is also sent up to the earlier node. It's really annoying me in my Huron game, no European nation has any provinces or merchants in the st. Lawrence node but they're still pulling like 4 ducats out of it just from having power in the north sea.

So because I'm so strong in Alexandria, I'm also getting a boost in the Gulf of Aden? Ok, I can live with that.

So why does it disappear when the merchant goes there? To stop it from being a constant loop?

Edit: never mind, it all seems to have gone now. Maybe something else changed, maybe it was an event

 

[Magean]

I have the same issue.
Look at that screenshot :


I'm Morocco. One of my merchants collects in Safi (capital), another steers from Timbuktu, where I own every province.
However, Tripoli steers to Tunis almost half of the outgoing trade. They have no merchant in Timbuktu, no ship (landlocked node), but they nonetheless have a hefty trade power there. All of it from "transfers from traders downstream". As of me, I get trade power from provinces and my merchant in Timbuktu. But the merchant I have in Safi transfers nothing upstream in Timbuktu. Why ? Why does Tripoli get that much TP ? And why aren't we (me, Algiers and Tunisia) getting it ?

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Because it only propagates to 'empty nodes', which doesn't mean there's nothing in it, just that you don't otherwise have any power there.

That creates the weird situation where sending a merchant over or gaining a province will often greatly reduce the amount of money you steer. Plus the patch notes suggest that your capital propagates to non-empty nodes as well as empty ones, but it doesn't.

edit: at least in your example, Algiers' trade power should still mostly be used to send trade in the direction you want it to, since the steering direction should still only be based on people who have merchants there.

 

[redmark]

I have the same issue.
Look at that screenshot :


I'm Morocco. One of my merchants collects in Safi (capital), another steers from Timbuktu, where I own every province.
However, Tripoli steers to Tunis almost half of the outgoing trade. They have no merchant in Timbuktu, no ship (landlocked node), but they nonetheless have a hefty trade power there. All of it from "transfers from traders downstream". As of me, I get trade power from provinces and my merchant in Timbuktu. But the merchant I have in Safi transfers nothing upstream in Timbuktu. Why ? Why does Tripoli get that much TP ? And why aren't we (me, Algiers and Tunisia) getting it ?

It doesn't seem to be WAD. Same behaviour happens in the Western Europe trade node (see thread).

Upstream-propagated trade pulls trade forward... but not in any direction. A merchant directs trade value... but doesn't benefit from upstream-propagation. Colonial 50% TP contribution doesn't propagate downstream, can't be collected without a province, and doesn't seem to consistently send in the logical direction with a merchant.

 

[redmark]

edit: at least in your example, Algiers' trade power should still mostly be used to send trade in the direction you want it to, since the steering direction should still only be based on people who have merchants there.

But by not sending a merchant, Tripoli provides a lot of TP (propagated, much superior to actually having a merchant) and Algiers/Tunisia's merchants provide the direction - which just happens to be in Tripoli's direction.

 

[beckermt]

I for one cannot wait for the inevitable trade DLC that makes trade flow direction dynamic. It will be one of the most amazing DLCs.

I would seriously alter the game in a great way.

All they have to do is recursive calculation (node loses 20% in direction X, but gains 40% of direction y) until some arbitrarily small amount. I did the math with a 3 node circle and it works fine.

 

[Magean]

I checked again, it appeared that the large of amount of power Tripoli had in Timbuktu was actually steered (at least in the major part) to Safi, which is great for me. I guess that's because my merchant steering to Safi relied on more power than Algiers's or Tunis's merchant steering to Tunis.

But that doesn't explain why Tripoli has so much free trade power transferred upstream.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

But by not sending a merchant, Tripoli provides a lot of TP (propagated, much superior to actually having a merchant) and Algiers/Tunisia's merchants provide the direction - which just happens to be in Tripoli's direction.

I made a small mistake there, I meant Tripoli, not Algiers. So yeah, Tripoli isn't really effecting the trade at all in Timbuktu since everything is sent forward and they don't factor into the direction.

 

[bisthebis]

I never understood how it worked, but i seems it's different since 1.5. Does anyone have an idea of why, as Oman (in Gulf of Aden) I suddenly stopped to have bonus pôwer in ceylon & Indus without changing anything in my merchants' position ?

 

[sgt.stickybomb]

I never understood how it worked, but i seems it's different since 1.5. Does anyone have an idea of why, as Oman (in Gulf of Aden) I suddenly stopped to have bonus pôwer in ceylon & Indus without changing anything in my merchants' position ?

trade power is sent"up" from a downstream node, make sure you have ships in the gulf of Aden node and you should see some power in the previous nodes. also make sure you don't have over extension and have a larg(er) trade steering. that is you should research the trade ideas and the dipomatic techs.

 

[bisthebis]

That's what happen, indeed, but sometimes, even with ships in the Gulf, nothing came...
Does Trade Steering gives a bonus on this power bonus ? It seems a good idea, since having a big trade steering (I have 100%) is useless if it only gives bonus value.