Training nations?

[Xerxes 8933A]

Recently, with the aid of the free copy Paradox gave out, I introduced a friend to the wonderful world of Grand Strategy. He's been enjoying himself so far, and it seems I will have another person to play Eu4 with when it come out. We've played two games so far. The first, with him as Spain to learn the basics, economy and colonization. And with myself as France to protect him. And the second, with him as Austria to learn about the HRE, war and diplomacy. I was Brandenburg, to give him a free vote mainly. We played both till the mid 1600s, at which point he'd united Iberia and explored the world/crushed France and inherited Burgundy so wasn't much left to learn in that game.

For a third game, I was thinking either Russia or Ottomans. Something eastern, to learn about technology, and hopefully fighting loosing wars. Issue is, I don't have much experience with eastern nations. Not sure which of those, or others would be good for that sort of idea. Also want a nearby nation for me to play as, close enough to possibly bail him out if needed. He's had fun so far, but don't want to crush him and turn him away from the idea of playing the next game with me. Any tips or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[A_Dane]

Hmm, you guys playing DW right?

Then I'd perhaps go with Novgorod/Teutons (you as the Teutons) or Ottomans/Muscovy, the first one offers quite a challenge for a new player, where he can aim for uniting Russia, without having to deal with the hordes, or if you're feeling adventurous, go for the second option, though he get annoyed with the horde mechanics

 

[sebas379]

I'm a newbie myself still, finally getting the hang of Castille-Spain and stuff. but I've read things here and there and watched the world go round a bit.

If you want something eastern, what would you think of putting your friend on Muscowy and taking a large nation around him yourself. Novgorod, Poland, Lithuania, something like that can at least put some boots on the ground if shit hits the fan in eastern Europe? IF you leave Novgorod AI he can try to form Russia, but it might be harder to help him in the first few decades with the horde next door.

edit: ninja'd by an even better idea IMO

 

[Xerxes 8933A]

Hmm, you guys playing DW right?

Then I'd perhaps go with Novgorod/Teutons (you as the Teutons) or Ottomans/Muscovy, the first one offers quite a challenge for a new player, where he can aim for uniting Russia, without having to deal with the hordes, or if you're feeling adventurous, go for the second option, though he get annoyed with the horde mechanics

For the first, why Novgorod instead of Muscovy? I thought Muscovy got all the good missions for forming Russia. And it's cheap enough to just pay the horde off at the start anyway right? Or do you say Novgorod for the Republic aspect, to make it easier to westernize? Teutons would be good there though, close enough to assist. And I could pretty much just repeat what I did in my Brandenburg game.
For the second, you mean him as Ottomans? Either way, they seem a little too far apart for me to be of assistance in the first century, which is the time he would most likely need any help. But the Ottomans would make an easier game for him compared to Russia I think.

 

[PandaL]

Maybe Ottoman and Mamluk to help out each other dealing with the hords? (also experience succession crysis, westernization etc etc)
One in eastern (Teuton, Lithu, Poland) and another as one of the Russian will also be fine. (as other mentioned)

 

[cuendillar]

For the first, why Novgorod instead of Muscovy? I thought Muscovy got all the good missions for forming Russia. And it's cheap enough to just pay the horde off at the start anyway right? Or do you say Novgorod for the Republic aspect, to make it easier to westernize? Teutons would be good there though, close enough to assist. And I could pretty much just repeat what I did in my Brandenburg game.
For the second, you mean him as Ottomans? Either way, they seem a little too far apart for me to be of assistance in the first century, which is the time he would most likely need any help. But the Ottomans would make an easier game for him compared to Russia I think.

As long as he starts by paying tribute to the GH, Muscowy is much easier and safer than the Ottomans - at least with a reliable ally. The Ottomans just tend to get crusaded apart and are hard pressed by the hordes in the east. A Muscowy who can count upon TO support is much less likely to implode once the horde is being paid off.A Teutonic AI just tend to dishonour that alliance all the time, but well placed to aid against both Novgorod and Poland-Lithuania. The more natural match for Turkey is the Mamluks, who faces many of the same enemies.

In those cases, the natural exapnsion paths are definitely;
TO+Muscowy - Muscowy forms Russia and presses east, the Order expands into the HRE with ambitions of forming Germany. Lithuania will have to be agreed upon.
Ottomans+Mamluks: Mamluks takes the southern shore of the Mediterranean, the Ottomans the northern parts. Mamluks should probably get Arabia and Persia, but it's certainly debatable.

 

[A_Dane]

Novgorod because it's a republic, and further away from the horde as to not be such a big annoyance, and if you're the Teutons you are both in a better position to help each other .

Muscovy gets the better missions IIRC, however, they're hampered by either having to fight the horde, or lose a lot of money paying them off, which can be quite a pain in the ass if you're new.

If you were gonna go Muscovy/Ottomans it should be you as the Muscovites, I suggested it due to the Ottomans generally being in a good enough shape for him to be able to stand on his own while getting the gripes of the game, as long as he stays out of attacking Catholics when either Spain or Austria is defender of the faith, it really depends on how well he's grasped the game

(I also highly recommend playing with lucky nations turned off, if you're gonna play as anyone but a western nation, Austria usually goes into berserk mode and roflstomp anything that moves)

 

[Ericafaq]

England
Austria
France
Ming China

 

[The-King]

Ottomans is an excellent training nation and its probably the most fun nation in single player (according to my biased opinion).

 

[merserm]

Another consideration is for him to take one of the Merchant Republics with the intent to learn the Trading game and Republics. Genoa/Venice/Hansa.
Very different feel as a Republic.
You could take Austria for back up military support if he needs it.

 

[yequr]

When I tried to do the same thing with my friend (we didn't get to play more than 10 years), my choice was Castille/Morocco, as human Morocco eliminates the bane of many novice Castille players trying to take over Granada. It also made Morocco a lot easier to play for me

 

[unmerged(204522)]

holland or portugal would train in the economy/exploration/colonisation and managing a secondary power-you could protect him as burgundy or england......

 

[Xerxes 8933A]

Thanks guys. We are gonna go with the TO/Novgorod option. He get's westernization, unification, the horde and a republic. And I'm close enough to bail him out if needed.

 

[A_Dane]

Thanks guys. We are gonna go with the TO/Novgorod option. He get's westernization, unification, the horde and a republic. And I'm close enough to bail him out if needed.

Best of luck, hope it goes well