• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

erickg162

Recruit
4 Badges
Apr 15, 2015
2
1
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
Lately I have noticed that allot of times traffic in my city is causes by what looks like to be a bug in the game. My biggest traffic jams happen on the highway, cars will stop in the middle of the highway to change lanes. Treat the right lane as an off lane only, even though its not according to the arrows on the lane. So when traffic is getting on the highway they will stop until they can get on the middle lane causing a traffic jam.
I would like to know if this is happening to anyone else?
 

Attachments

  • traffic prt sc.jpg
    traffic prt sc.jpg
    196,7 KB · Views: 398
  • 1
Reactions:

Stuaz

Second Lieutenant
10 Badges
Mar 8, 2015
146
135
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
It will be because further down the road where they want to go they will go via the Middle lane and rather than using all lanes they are getting in the correct lane and because of the volume of traffic that queue is getting longer.

I guess if we could see a picture showing a bit more further up the road it would help as probably resolving that intersection
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Jenkins87

Corporal
Apr 13, 2015
32
18
www.jenkinsmedia.com.au
@Stuaz is right, the problem isn't that intersection, it would be further down the highway, and it is most likely because you don't have enough exits to popular areas that the majority of that conga line of cims wants to go to.

And everyone has this issue, it's part of the core game (more like a side effect). Definitely not a bug, it is a good way that the game can teach how you to diagnose and manage traffic flow problems IMO. :)

If you can't track down the source, Follow a few of the trucks and cars that are part of the jam, and see if they are going to the same area, if they are, that means you need to think about the way you have designed the feed in and out of that area, as I understand it, you need more "options" for the cims to take at different stages along the highway

EDIT: Every player of Cities Skylines should read this, because it is written by a traffic engineer, and has basically everything you need to know about how the traffic works in CS, and how to manage it
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=410236188
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Shiggs

Slum Lord
34 Badges
May 29, 2007
1.305
63
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
I wouldn't call it a bug, but it could probably use some tweaking still. I mean we all know that the car doesn't need to merge into the middle lane right away, you wouldn't do it in real life, nor would every car on the highway strive to be in the middle lane. We pick open lanes, at least I do. You'll never see a car in this game go from on-ramp to far left lane and then back into the right lane eventually to get off the highway a few km down the road, yet I pretty much do that everywhere I go. The system works, but its by no means optimal or even logical in some cases.

Sadly, other than speed limit and potential stop lights, highways really aren't any different than a one way avenue. There aren't any special rules that makes cars want to yield or keep moving. They happily smash their brakes and come to a complete stop anywhere on the highway there is some congestion... even if the other 2 lanes are completely clear.

Having said all of that your onramp is at a pretty unrealistic angle. most of them basically run parallel for the merging process, not perpendicular... They are probably having to stop or really slow down a ton to merge, imo defeating the purpose.

Nice link too Jenkins, good info to read if you are having problems.
 
Last edited:

erickg162

Recruit
4 Badges
Apr 15, 2015
2
1
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
I looked for problems on my map I saw heavy traffic areas but no other traffic jams. The only traffic jam is that area of the highway, before and after that point is smooth driving. While I was playing last night I saw the problem fixed itself for a short time but then it happend again.
Anyway thnx for the feed back guys, I'll loook at how I can take some cars of the highway.
 

JerkyJerry

There was never a good war or a bad peace.
22 Badges
Jan 15, 2013
2.176
1.278
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
With the countless posts about traffic, cars only using one lane etc.
With all the folks at CO who read the posts
I'm sure that if a fix/solution could be had it would have been put in place already
My guess is there is just no way to change traffic, the way cars behave/react their inability to see open lanes etc.
I fear we are stuck with the way things are
We are all just going to have to find work-a-rounds
It is just a fact of a CS mayor's life I'm afraid
 

Azurespecter

Influencer Manager
Paradox Staff
36 Badges
Aug 14, 2013
595
813
twitter.com
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
I wouldn't call it a bug, but it could probably use some tweaking still.

Right you are!

With the countless posts about traffic, cars only using one lane etc.
With all the folks at CO who read the posts
I'm sure that if a fix/solution could be had it would have been put in place already
My guess is there is just no way to change traffic, the way cars behave/react their inability to see open lanes etc.
I fear we are stuck with the way things are
We are all just going to have to find work-a-rounds
It is just a fact of a CS mayor's life I'm afraid

Not so right =) The problem is that traffic behavior won't ever have a "fix" that will magically make all your traffic problems go away. Even if possible, that would ruin the fun in trying to make a great city infrastructure! Many people mistakenly think it's a bug whenever their traffic doesn't flow perfectly, but it's not.

That being said, CO is always looking for ways to improve Cities: Skylines. And we're always open to suggestions!
 
  • 5
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

JerkyJerry

There was never a good war or a bad peace.
22 Badges
Jan 15, 2013
2.176
1.278
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
OMG! I got a response from an official
YES! I rule!
I'm somebody now!
Suck on that everyone!
HA!




Thanks Azurespecter
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Jenkins87

Corporal
Apr 13, 2015
32
18
www.jenkinsmedia.com.au
Not a bug ?

LOL

The same rule still applies afaik... The problem you have taken a screenshot of, is not where it is caused. Further down the highway, will be your problem (or lack of options for cims to take).

The harsh merging is something I think they can tweak, but the reason why they are merging, as others point out, is because your road layout design is not supporting those cims who are violently merging.

I could explain this better if it wasn't 430am here and if my eyes and brain were functioning correctly... lol, this game is like, a time vortex. Suddenly, daylight appears :confused:
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Jenkins87

Corporal
Apr 13, 2015
32
18
www.jenkinsmedia.com.au
its funny, actually in yuuzhantar's pic they are going into the right lane instead of the middle one. Might be the angles of the onramps ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean there is a major road that leads off to the right of that one down the highway somewhere? (instead of a natural offramp on the left) Possibly a 1 lane offramp that should be a 2 or 3 lane offramp now because of the volume of traffic? I can't think straight, too tired atm lol

edit: when I say right and left, I mean right of frame and left of frame (his screenshot)
 

Myquandro

Major
Mar 31, 2015
634
191
Most of the problems with traffic is caused because they have too few lanes at a certain point. The maximum throughput of an entire roads is defined by the throughput of the smallest point. If that smallest point is only one lane wide, there is (almost) no point for cars further down the line to use more then one lane as the capacity of one lane is equal to the maximum capacity, the only difference would be in the length of the line not the time it takes one car to get off the highway (or other road). Imagine a bottle where (off course) the bottleneck is the place where everything has to come through to get out, getting a wider bottle with the same bottleneck wouldn't make the water (or something else) get out of the bottle faster, it would only lower the water level if the same amount of water is in the bottle.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Shiggs

Slum Lord
34 Badges
May 29, 2007
1.305
63
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
^^yea, but even if they do that, like in the OP's picture, they will go into the middle lane, then back into the right lane before exiting I think...? I don't know, maybe they will just stay in the right lane the whole time.

It would probably best be displayed using a video with fraps and youtube. just download it, its easy, youtube is as well or vimeo whatever your preference.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Jenkins87

Corporal
Apr 13, 2015
32
18
www.jenkinsmedia.com.au
they will go into the middle lane, then back into the right lane before exiting I think...? I don't know, maybe they will just stay in the right lane the whole time.
I've noticed that both are true, depending on the layout...

The one caveat I can safely say that I find a bit, unrealistic, is the fact the cims change lanes as early as technically possible.... While on a small scale this is fine, and not noticable, but on a larger scale, this can cause weird issues with drivers slowing down to give way to lane mergers or lane changers, miles before they need to...
I very rarely have much of this one lane jam issue, usually if I have a traffic jam, it's all lanes, and it's usually because I've placed 6 lane avenues a bit too much... Lol

Edit: I changed the word "bug" to caveat, because I think this word is being thrown around a bit too freely concerning the proper management and undstanding of the traffic system in this game...
 
  • 2
Reactions:

yuuzhantar

Corporal
22 Badges
Jan 4, 2015
45
24
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Lead and Gold
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
The same rule still applies afaik... The problem you have taken a screenshot of, is not where it is caused. Further down the highway, will be your problem (or lack of options for cims to take).

I disagree, the problem/bug/jam .... is caused by a bad/bugged behaviour in lane usage and lane changing

merging, as others point out

Well that is a bug =) but that's not the issue I was talking about concerning lane utilization

both are similar, (my illustration is worth, 2 lane crossing at a time) but th OP pointed that unnecessary lane changing caused by the cars behaviour, is generating traffic jams
maybe it will be necessary furtherbut making this lane choice 10 killometers before change of direction generate congestion
in the same time a part of the flow will have changed path to go elsewhere
so making it later can be more efficient

on the OP's picture the cars want to go directly from the ramp to the central lane
vehicles shouldn't cross lanes, but insert on the first lane, pick up speed, adapt speed to insert beetween cars on the other lane, and after change lane

they should stay on a less congested lane instead of change immediately and if another change is required, make it later with the same behaviour (adapt, change)

Cars take the "final" lane too in advance (even inside city, on the avenues)
for example, 10 intersections in the futur, the car will turn left. so it takes the left-most lane when arriving on a path segment
even if there is a 10km traffic jam on the lane and two other empty lanes

your pathfinding algorithm seems to give too much consideration on the shortest lanes, with a loadbalancing based on the road usage
so even if a lane is full, the road load weight is 33%, and the traffic jam is not fully taken in consideration
associated with a path fully (lane by lane) establish ed in advance, it causes more congestion

maybe tha algorith should be splitted in two
a macro algorithm which choose segmentss/roads path when establishing the destination
and a micro algorithm which choose the lane when arriving on the current segment, a lane which permits to cross the next segment

this choice should be followed by the resulting number of lane changes, with a limit distance based on speed, and the distance to the "point of no return"
It would be nice to permit to edit the intersection combination (see on my shema the 2/3 roads turning signs) with a clicking toogle

weight is calculated with congestion, speed and distance
something like : weight = segmentWidth / segmentSpeed x congestionInPercent
all these values in a A* algorithm

and the road AI should finally work as expected by players !

@Azurespecter I hope you will report this to devs, I spent a little time on my reply ^^

shematic_view.jpg


on the schema, in the vertical part, the blue line choose immediately the final lane, even if the lane is fully congested and the turn left is not on this intersection but further

a more efficient pathfinding should choose the less congested lane to continue, and a little before the left turn change lane to could continue
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:

REDDQ

Colonel
76 Badges
Jul 2, 2013
931
1.965
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Knights of Honor
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
While we are at traffic problems... industrial zones and deliveries.

Agents are hell bent to use right lane most of the time and, not even god himself, would convince them to use middle or left. Not even if if right one is blocked. And here comes wonderful world of trucks which at their destination just drive into the building leaving trailer most likely blocking traffic. It is not realistic and with dozens of agents it can create quite a few problems.

1. Trucks with trailers
...could disappear when arriving at factory. There is hardly any business out there transferring any kind of resource to and from truck standing on a street.

2. Delivery vehicles
Please, teach them parallel parking ;)
 

Azurespecter

Influencer Manager
Paradox Staff
36 Badges
Aug 14, 2013
595
813
twitter.com
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
Yuuzantar, you're idea is well thought out and for that I thank you. It's wonderful to see community members being constructively critical and trying to help the game be better.

The logic you present is solid, but the unfortunate matter is that what you are suggesting is so extraordinarily difficult to program. What seems like simple traffic logic to you, is very hard to put into mathematical formulas and call functions that don't use up all your computers memory. That's one big reason why vehicles have to choose their routes early on. Can you imagine the strain on your system if they were constantly calculating every other vehicle sharing a road with them, plus all the vehicles past the next intersection?

I'm not trying to shoot you down, you really have given great ideas that I've taken note of. But I ask that you trust that CO is doing the best they can to simulate traffic, which is an extremely difficult thing to do. We want to improve, you want improvements, but at the end of the day we need to accept that the traffic AI will never be perfect.

Hope that makes sense and doesn't come off too blunt! =)
 
  • 7
Reactions: