This wouldn't be particularly tolerant of terrain and it's not perfect in terms of alignment but I threw it together kinda quick just to show.
Traffic AI
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This wouldn't be particularly tolerant of terrain and it's not perfect in terms of alignment but I threw it together kinda quick just to show.
It's not the same as what he wants but this works very well and doesn't take up much room.
It's my version of the turtle exit mod on steam. I just continued the highway and added ramps.
It's my version of the turtle exit mod on steam. I just continued the highway and added ramps.
I'm glad to see that you were able to find a workaround by curving the road a bit! Thanks for letting us know how you fixed it. I remember reading that CO is working on some of the traffic issues and am hoping that this sort of thing will be ironed out.
I'd suggest submitting a bug request if you have the time and haven't already. I'm sure they know about this problem area by now but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
I'd suggest submitting a bug request if you have the time and haven't already. I'm sure they know about this problem area by now but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
don't count on it, in my opinion it's working fine. As far as the AI was concerned those two routes were practically equal and can you think of a way of giving an AI the ability to distinguish the two?I'm glad to see that you were able to find a workaround by curving the road a bit! Thanks for letting us know how you fixed it. I remember reading that CO is working on some of the traffic issues and am hoping that this sort of thing will be ironed out.
I'd suggest submitting a bug request if you have the time and haven't already. I'm sure they know about this problem area by now but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
If you are looking for a programming solution I can't begin to give you one. I'm not a programmer. That does not preclude me from realizing that a situation defies all logic and hoping that the people who can change it are able and willing to do so.
Unless people are under the impression that exiting the freeway can help them jump in front of a traffic jam/accident, I would venture that a majority of them do not plan to leave the freeway, just to enjoy the view of the intersections before hopping back on the freeway. That majority is also unlikely to simultaneously decide to only use a single lane of three that are available at the time they set off from home.
I look at the OP's screenshot and I can easily describe the problem and offer potential solutions based only on living in in cities of millions as well as towns of mere thousands, not on programming knowledge.
Some Observations:
1.) There are two lanes of the highway that could potentially allow all eastbound traffic to continuously travel east without any deviation.
2.) Far more importantly, there is only one lane of traffic that forces all traffic to exit the highway.
3.) Traffic is capable of programming lane changes prior to leaving its origin. You can see the eastbound traffic changing lanes on the access road, to avoid going north.
Some Problems:
1.) The two potential eastbound lanes are barely being used at all while passing through this junction.
2.) The north/southbound traffic is not using the second turning lane to exit the freeway and is stacking up in one lane without a real reason to do so.
3.) The eastbound traffic, almost all of it, is set-up to turn left and exit the freeway without point or purpose only to rejoin the freeway after crossing two intersections.
4.) The eastbound traffic is for some reason not programmed to change lanes and avoid the first mandated left turn. However, it is programmed to avoid the second mandated left turn with a lane change. This issue seemingly changes the decision making regarding this junction -
From this:
"I want to go straight."
"Do I exit the freeway here? No I go straight."
Into this:
"I want to go straight"
"Do I exit the freeway here? Yes. Do I turn left? No. Do I turn right? No, I enter the highway and go straight."
Why the extra effort? Maybe the latter is easier and quicker for the traffic AI to work with, I don't know. But if that is the case, it would be amazing to me.
Some Solutions:
1.) Ensure that the AI has the option to program itself to use all available lanes of travel. If and when this causes traffic jams, it will show the player where and what to work on in order to alleviate a real problem. This will tamp down the number of odd (but viable and even enjoyable) solutions that are necessary just to work around the game's current design and achieve a logical outcome.
2.) The AI at this point should understand that, a mandated turning lane will force traffic to slow down or stop and eventually turn. The AI should recognize that programming the traffic, travelling east through that junction, to turn off the freeway is likely an entirely pointless endeavor. Vice-Versa for the north/south-bounders who are in line with the eastbound traffic and will not use the optional turning lane.
3.) Traffic that needs to go straight should be able to either use the turning lane until it needs to make a lane change (preferably planned for a distance far enough from the intersection to avoid needlessly stalling the turning traffic) OR traffic that is not programmed to turn should avoid a mandatory turning lane until it is approaching it's actual turn and it should be open to using the optional turn lane if there is one.
All of this said, no one is asking for real-time calculations by 65K assets. But, if the AI can not be improved upon regarding its decision making about efficient lane choices, ignoring completely asinine designs by the builder, this game will not meet its potential. CO says the calculations can quickly get complicated and they don't want to bog down slower machines. I believe them and agree with them completely. They are making and working on the foundation city building sandbox-game that has great potential and do not want to alienate a chunk of their fan-base. It makes perfect sense.
However, if the arteries of the city are not able to be used efficiently due to technical limitations, then I fear the game will be short lived. If mods are able to do, for a small audience, what CO can not do, due to their large audience, that's great! SC4 still plays great with some great mods and it was a hot mess when it started out. But assets that can not or will not use the larger roads' extra lanes, to include deviating from an otherwise straight path just to continue their original journey moments later, are defeating the purpose of trying to build a proper network in the first place. The game has given the player some powerful traffic design tools. But the AI is, at times, not responding in an efficient way to otherwise logical ideas presented by players.
After all, I could push a bicycle using my feet, instead of using the pedals, and still get to where I'm going. Sure I still get there, the end result is the same, but does not mean that the situation is what it should be.
If this does not change, I feel and perhaps others will to, that the sandbox's rails will simply be too visible. It will still be a fun game, no doubt, but it will miss its potential. The immersion of free-form design is lost when you hit the edges of the canvas. The best sand box games, whether they are city builders, space sims, or RPG's allow the gamer to become lost in the world they are creating and inhabiting. The best rails gently guide the players through the game, without giving them whiplash, when they need to turn away from edge of the simulation.
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You keep talking about exiting the freeway. If those were ramps and they really were exiting the freeway the solution would be simple (and is already implemented). But it's not. Turning left, they are continuing along the freeway. Because for some reason (afaik no explanation has been offered in this thread) he is insisting on using full highways instead of ramps. So how is the AI supposed to distinguish between turning left and going straight on when they are, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same? If you're proposing adding something to make them "prefer" going straight to turning then I'm sure that would create problems in other situations.
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The problem is, most freeway exits and on-ramps have lower speed limits. By using highways for off and on ramps the pathfinding logic thinks both ways are equally valid. It appears the logic in the game will move the traffic left for left-hand traffic, and right for right-hand traffic. The only way I have found to get intersections to work correctly, is to use the off-ramp roads or two lane one-way roads for the off-ramps. I have also found for heavier traffic, roundabouts start falling apart and get clogged up. Someone else on another thread mentioned how the logic for roundabouts was wrong.
I provided a link in earlier post to same issue reported on steam where cars pick to drive through city (their path goes through ramps and two way six lane streets) instead of straight highway so the most of your speculations about it being caused by using highway for both paths are invalid.
No it's not. I downloaded that save file, had a look at it and commented on it. This is actually a different situation. The other one is certainly strange but I sincerely don't believe that it's the same issue.
As I mentioned in my post, I used 2 lane 1 way roads and on-ramps. Not the two way six lane streets as mentioned in your post. It makes a big difference.
Sorry forgot about other countries. Like I mentioned in another post. It would be nice if we had speed limit controls or zoning (speed limits) capability. Then we could fine tune the traffic the way we want.
I was in England for a couple of years (many years ago). I miss a lot of things. Especially the fish and chips.
This issue has been around since CIM2 and has never been fixed. The best work around is to use lower speed as already mentioned, or the more elegant solution you already figured out. Don get your hopes up this issue will ever be fixed.
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Agree. "Leaving the freeway instead of going straight" when they are both freeways and not flagged as "exits" is a problem the AI cannot solve and in all honesty, I don't want the AI to solve that. People, including me, need to build better road systems and deal with the current path finding and not try to make every vehicle constantly trying to figure out a good way to go.
People may complain about being "realistic" but we have no crashes in C:S. Peds get ran over all the time and cars clip through each other. I feel the alternative to "better" path finding would be worse than what it is right now. Seriously.
I would like to completely agree with you Zalym. I could not have said it better. The traffic ai is killing my immersion of this game and causing me to slowly wean. I am just surprised that it appears that so many individuals have put on these huge blinders to this.
For me, it was not blinders. It was me starting out a game after not playing SimCity games for a long time and trying to understand why a 6 lane 1 way road has only one lane being used. It is logical for the AI to use the "proper" lane and not weave in and out constantly (see also Los Angeles, CA traffic at 5PM) just to get one car length ahead of the car in front of them, cutting them off and causing more traffic issues then what it is solving.
It does not kill my immersion of the game, but what it does make me do is think of how the computer would drive to a place and not me, ultimately making pretty efficient road networks and not having these problems to begin with.
One can still "game" the system by using one lane off ramps as main roads, etc, for the extra speed and since the AI uses "one lane" of a freeway, anyway, why not?
That is the part I don't like and where the "immersion" falls off for me, but I understand completely where the line is drawn for each of us is different.
Also, a part of the cool aspects of the game I liked was when I put in a hairpin turn on a one lane offramp and the vehicles slowed wayyyy down to compensate. That made me realize the AI was a bit smarter than I was and not go 100 miles per hour around a 180 tight turn. This also resulted in better road construction on my part.
I do not use any mods, but the "traffic analyzer" or whatever it is called was integrated into the game, as in "show me arrows of where this car is going", it would be a lot easier to understand the path finding and the AI would not really need much changing. Agreed?
Right now, super over analyzing traffic is a bummer and we need tools to compensate for that in the game, not as a mod.
I do not use any mods, but the "traffic analyzer" or whatever it is called was integrated into the game, as in "show me arrows of where this car is going", it would be a lot easier to understand the path finding and the AI would not really need much changing. Agreed?
Right now, super over analyzing traffic is a bummer and we need tools to compensate for that in the game, not as a mod.
Isn't just good for immersion, also simulates one of the (many) problems with the cloverleaf (or really, any design using non-directional ramps in general) in that the more compact you make them the slower the traffic has to go (thus lowering their capacity somewhat).