Trading: What am I doing wrong?

[ulot]

So I decided to take another crack at the HRE and forming Germany. Started up a game as Bradenburg. I start with a lvl6 Trader (+12% compete chance) and think "Awesome! I'll build up some trade while I wait to get out of the PU." So I focus on trade and go for National Trade Policy as my first tech up.

30 years later dumping all of my economy into Trade tech and merchants and I have squat to show for it. In Lubeck I barely have at 50% chance. Send 5 merchant in and maybe 2 will make it. Either way they are gone in a month or two. I can't keep a merchant in a CoT for half a year to save my life. All of my budget surplus is going into merchants that cost more then they make for me. Since I'm not bringing in a trade surplus, the other trading nations are teching up faster and the compete rate continues to fall. How am I suppose to succeed if even with awesome advisers and the right NI I can't get the thing off the ground?

So what am I doing wrong here? I have a similar experience every time I try to build up trade. The only time I get anything out of it is if I build my own CoT and more or less only trade with myself. Keep reading that trade is suppose to be a great source of income, but I've never seen it. I'm playing on normal difficulty with normal settings if that matters.

 

[DDRJake]

If you are not fully free trading and, to a lesser extent, plutocratic in your national sliders, you will get slain in markets both by those who are (holland, Switzerland, etc) and by the COT owner themselves. Trading outside of CoTs you own is a waste of time and money until you are fully free trading.

 

[joshau-k]

Your country is terrible at trading, so you probably shouldn't try unless you get your sliders in the right position to trade, but that might not be a good long term strategy.

 

[unmerged(88716)]

load some of the countries that do good with trade and examine their sliders and settings

 

[neondt]

As Brandenburg, you start out rather merchantilist and it's a very long road to become a viable trading nation. You're better off using your sliders to move towards land and centralisation. Merchantilism is pretty good if you own COT's anyway. Try to get Lubeck, it's one of the best provinces in the game as well as being a COT; I'd say it's worth taking unlawful territory penalties if you don't have some way of getting a core on it.

 

[unmerged(88716)]

Just spend a magistrate on your newly conquered uncored province leaving HRE once you are at peace. Than emperor can't give you unlawful territory penalties.
Also you can't get unlawful territory penalties while you or emperor is at some war.

 

[ulot]

So I guess the answer is just the slider. I had been doing that, but I guess not enough. Thought the trader would help make up the difference.

Too bad cause it was otherwise a good start. An event popped giving me a core in 3 or 4 neighboring provinces. Guess I'll check to see if I have an early save still somewhere and start over now that I know that strategy was a dead end for the next 100 years.

 

[alexti]

So I guess the answer is just the slider. I had been doing that, but I guess not enough. Thought the trader would help make up the difference.

Too bad cause it was otherwise a good start. An event popped giving me a core in 3 or 4 neighboring provinces. Guess I'll check to see if I have an early save still somewhere and start over now that I know that strategy was a dead end for the next 100 years.

In the beginning you could join Novgorod's trading league - that would allow you to trade for a while using their stats (which are quite good). Towards the end of the decade you would get displaced by trading nations, but that means you could've done two slider moves and with Free Trade +1 and +10% compete idea you can already trade yourself, so you would only need to hold on for ~20 years without trade.

 

[ulot]

Is it worth the slider changes and years of unproductive trading to do that though? I know it is a long game, but that seems like a large set back.

If one doesn't go for trading, what is the best way to build an economy? Focus on Production or just skim by until you can gain enough territory and vassals?

 

[DDRJake]

Is it worth the slider changes and years of unproductive trading to do that though? I know it is a long game, but that seems like a large set back.

If one doesn't go for trading, what is the best way to build an economy? Focus on Production or just skim by until you can gain enough territory and vassals?

These are questions you'll have to answer yourself through experience. My two pennies would be that either you conquer territories, have your own Centres of Trade and enjoy being a mercantile moneymaker or remain small/vassalise everyone there is and go for free trading as if your small, trade is going to outnumber your otherprofites 10:1.

By 1650, trade is the moneymaker no matter who you are. Not to say that you need to trade to be successfull, but if you're tapping into trade by that time, either through your own CoTs or through foreign trade, you're going to be laughing.

 

[delra]

If you want to be a trader, you need to get serious about it. There are two ways of doing that:

Free trade way means not just a single advisor, but also high prestige, stability, national ideas, decisions (especially east india company and privateers), trade buildings, and plenty of slider moves towards free trade and plutocracy.

If you don't want to go through that, another way includes conquering/inheriting everything north of you up to Denmark (for Sound Toll bonus) as well as the main centres of trade - and using your mercantilism to your huge advantage to maintain a monopoly in one-two huge controlling whole of Germany CoTs. In that second way sliders and NIs will also work to your huge advantage - but won't be as important as in the first method.

In the long run, it's way easier to operate in foreign COTs under free trade than to attempt to conquer your way into controlling the world trade. But both ways are viable and very rewarding. Just pick your route - and either start moving your sliders towards Free Trade or begin annexing main trading competition (Venice is a good start of that btw).

 

[alexti]

By 1650, trade is the moneymaker no matter who you are. Not to say that you need to trade to be successfull, but if you're tapping into trade by that time, either through your own CoTs or through foreign trade, you're going to be laughing.

But from another angle by 1650 you can get your production income so big that whether you trade or not won't make much difference

 

[unmerged(106498)]

If you are not fully free trading and, to a lesser extent, plutocratic in your national sliders, you will get slain in markets both by those who are (holland, Switzerland, etc) and by the COT owner themselves. Trading outside of CoTs you own is a waste of time and money until you are fully free trading.

This. I recently did a game as Brandenburg for the first 100 years to form Germany. They have real income troubles, and the first 6 or 7 slider moves I did were over to free trade to fix this. Don't go plutocracy imo, you need the diplomats and cheap cav. Full free trade will get you in markets everywhere. Make vassals in the meantime, and PU's with all the nations you need for Germany. I was going to go Prussia then Germany, but the stupid reformation never happened in the first 100 years, so...

 

[unmerged(142505)]

The slider does not need to be important after the early game. In my Bavaria->HRE game i was from start to finish full mercantilist and at 1650 i realized that i could even send my merchants to Spain, The new world and Venezia with 90-99%. Tech lead and Custom Houses help a lot i guess. This could be an equally good option for Brandenburg.

Edit: Note- Before forming the HRE i was not trading at all. I just vassalized them all.

 

[unmerged(371738)]

If you are not fully free trading and, to a lesser extent, plutocratic in your national sliders, you will get slain in markets both by those who are (holland, Switzerland, etc) and by the COT owner themselves. Trading outside of CoTs you own is a waste of time and money until you are fully free trading.

Also, even if you are full free trade it's often worth it to trade in your own CoTs, just because it's really easy to establish monopolies, whereas competing is very difficult if you have a lot of placed merchants. I have full FT and Plutocracy and I'm the most advanced country in the world with NI NTP, and I have like a 1% chance to compete in foreign markets - because I own about 12 centers of trade and have monopolies in all of them.

Trading is absurdly lucrative, so I recommend going toward FT and Plutocracy after you get your centralization maxed for your government level, but if you want to trade in the early game try someone like Holland, Burgundy or Oman.

 

[Pewt]

Also, even if you are full free trade it's often worth it to trade in your own CoTs, just because it's really easy to establish monopolies, whereas competing is very difficult if you have a lot of placed merchants. I have full FT and Plutocracy and I'm the most advanced country in the world with NI NTP, and I have like a 1% chance to compete in foreign markets - because I own about 12 centers of trade and have monopolies in all of them.

Trading is absurdly lucrative, so I recommend going toward FT and Plutocracy after you get your centralization maxed for your government level, but if you want to trade in the early game try someone like Holland, Burgundy or Oman.

I don't see why you ever wouldn't trade in your own CoTs.

 

[unmerged(371738)]

I don't see why you ever wouldn't trade in your own CoTs.

It might be worth it not to if you don't want the penalty for placed merchants and have a much more lucrative CoT you'd like to control. But generally, yeah, always trade in your CoT.