I am less worried about the trade aspect, as I am this thing with the Air power nailing units constantly and blowing the enemy's ground force down to 0% organization.
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I think the World Market interface is pretty cool--even though I really haven't figured it out just yet--but I would've preferred to be able to directly trade with a specific nation's offer...say, if Rumania was offeriing 8 oil for 12 coal, and Siam was offering 8 rubber for 16 coal, I'd like to have been able to decide what to do with my coal and who to buy what from.
Just my .02 USD.
Just my .02 USD.
Because it's the system that is in the game. You can speculate on better ways of doing it all you want, but what exists is what Paradox wrote. BiB (and several other betas) generally reply with ways to work within the system, or explanations of aspects of the system. It's not defending the game, it's just trying to be helpful.
And there's no need for betazoids to join in with you trashing bad features. We have our own forum for that, and do it all the time.
Originally posted by State Machine
Because it's the system that is in the game. You can speculate on better ways of doing it all you want, but what exists is what Paradox wrote. BiB (and several other betas) generally reply with ways to work within the system, or explanations of aspects of the system. It's not defending the game, it's just trying to be helpful.
And there's no need for betazoids to join in with you trashing bad features. We have our own forum for that, and do it all the time.
Yes I know it is the system that is in the game. I also know that it is the system that Paradox wrote. Now tell me, because Im not really sure, should we interpret your reply as "this system is set in stone"?
I wasnt aware that what I wrote was considered "thrashing the system". I thought I was only pointing out some obscene consequences of the current model.
I mean what is the point of having a bulletin board like this if you dont want people to come here and voice their concerns over the game if they have any? Personally I am of the opinion that if there are any aspects of the game that are bad/not really working, then these aspects should be changed.
Well, if they are to be changed, then the first step to achieve such change would be to make Paradox aware of the problem...do you agree?
Originally posted by BiB
What State Machine said.
Anyway, converting coal is cheaper anyway
BiB I guess we just want different things from this game...
Instead of filling my provinces with AA to shoot down all british strategic bombers doing the suicide conga, I would like to see a functioning AI that doesnt send its bombers towards certain death once every hour.
Instead of having the option to buy all my resources on the world market and then have those resources magically appear in my capitol, I would like to be faced with the same challenges the real nations faced in 36-47.
Instead of having Germany conquering all of Europe by 1938 I would actually like to play a difficult game where I really had to struggle just to have my nation survive up until 48. (and yes, I know I can try to play as Luxemburg or whatever, but I would like to have that challenge when playing Germany or the UK or the USSR or whatever)
As I said, I suppose we just want different things from this game.
No, it's not set in stone. And I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else is trashing the game in this discussion. I did want to imply that we betazoids have very strong opinions about game features, too, including trashing some of them. We just do it behind closed doors.
I was just trying to give the perspective that many betazoids are not trying to argue against points that are being discussed because we think everything is great. As this argument shows, there is no need for betazoids to add our opinion. But, we can give you some perspective of how to live with a given problem.
Of course, I don't speak for all betadom...
Yes, I understand that, and I respect you for keeping that behind closed doors. In fact, I wish there were some way to have discussions like this outside of the general forums, because any newcomer coming here might get the wrong impression about the game when he sees these posts where people point out the current game engine flaws.
I love the game, and I have spent several hours infront of it. It is truly the best damn strategic ww2 simulator I have ever seen. It is just frustrating to have some bugs that kills the gaming feeling if you know what I mean. UK strategic bombers and the world market magic are the two things that concerns me right now, and personally I want them changed.
Well, so I come here and post my concerns, and I guess I just get frustrated when I get replies that seems to indicate that
a) there isnt a problem, or
b) I should learn how to live with it.
Im sorry if my posts have sounded harsh, that was never my intention.
I totally agree
I do not want to "trash" the game in anyway and feel that valid points have been raised, With the advent of internet patching (which is not a bad thing) games evolve rather than arrive carved in stone. Gameplay nuance's that have been identified and addressed can only improve future versions of the game
Wow. This seriously concerns me. I've yet to play the game, but easy access to resources for all? This is no longer WW2, but some fantasy setting. It might simplify the game, but it destroys the whole purpose of it. What would be the point of WW2?
No problem. And, I'm sorry if my first post didn't convey what the second did.
And, of course, betazoids can't really be very overt in public about any criticisms we have. Since, we are, in effect, the public persona of Paradox.
Anway, you can imagine that quite a few problems get strong discussion in the beta forum, and we are happy to add the many good points the public makes to our discussions.
Cheers - State
We don't really. I'm just a realist (and happen to know better than non betas what is possible)
Your attitude puzzles me.
Are you implying that it is impossible for the game engine to handle the strategic suicide conga bug?
How hard would it be to add a command line to the game that would cancel all offers on the world market if the nation is at war against two other major powers?
Well, think about it. Oil and rubber are strategic resources that major powers were at each others' throats to get. Whole reason for Japan to initiate a war with US was that its' oil was cut off and new source must have been found immediately. In the game, however, Japan can readily buy rubber and oil for coal and iron from China in 1941. Don't you think it kind of kills the idea of seizing Indonesia? Why bother? You can buy it all.
The more I think about it
Your right of course. At the end of the war they were so starved for fuel, that the Japanese basically cut every tree in sight to convert to fuel. I dont remember the ratio but it was something like an adult tree could only provide 1 hour fighter flight. What the germans failed to do to the UK the americans did to japenese. American submarine warfare destroyed the japanese merchant marine. I will game this out but I honestly believe from what I read here that its not even worth researchin or producing subs. Why bother, the spot market will provide what is needed, resources and lack of them were pivotal in the strategy employed in WW2. It would be nice if this could reflect history more accurately. The spot market kinda makes ecomonic warfare window dressing.
Your right of course. At the end of the war they were so starved for fuel, that the Japanese basically cut every tree in sight to convert to fuel. I dont remember the ratio but it was something like an adult tree could only provide 1 hour fighter flight. What the germans failed to do to the UK the americans did to japenese. American submarine warfare destroyed the japanese merchant marine. I will game this out but I honestly believe from what I read here that its not even worth researchin or producing subs. Why bother, the spot market will provide what is needed, resources and lack of them were pivotal in the strategy employed in WW2. It would be nice if this could reflect history more accurately. The spot market kinda makes ecomonic warfare window dressing.
As said, it kills strategic importance of Rumanian and Hungarian oil for Germans. They can still have enough oil even when Hungary is already overrun, and Romania switched sides. Tho, what am I talking about....Germany never gets to be defeated, ever. Anyway, it also kills reason for Germans to attack Norway since there's no Norwegian and Swedish ore that Brits could blockade. Invasion of Norway never happens, either. Japan can easily take it's time to conquer all of China up to Soviet Turkestan even tho their oil was supposed to run out a looooooooong time ago. Well, of all things that happen is that although there is no reason for Japanese to invade NEI, resource wise, they still do it, like in 1936 or 37. And British never do anything about it.
I don't want to trash the game, but this economic thing is very, very, disapppointing. If I had known how this worked in advance, I'm honestly not sure if I would have bought the game. I will certainly think twice about rushing to the stores to get another Paradox game as soon as it is released.
Of course even now that I do own the game, I still wouldn't know how the economy works if not for this forum. Which is also disappointing and frustrating. Whoever wrote the manual did a terrible job of explaining the world market. I hope that some enterprising moderator creates a sticky post here or in the FAQ that describes how the trade system works (if they haven't already).
Anyway, since this is what we've got, I guess I'd better learn to like it. On that note, it seems like part of the problem here is that there is way too much coal and steel available in the game. In fact it seems like there is more coal and steel available across the world than anyone can possibly use. If these materials were harder to get then it wouldn't be possible to just trade away or convert your massive surpluses into oil and/or rubber. So perhaps a realistic way to improve this situation would be to reduce the overall amount of coal and iron in the game.
Of course even now that I do own the game, I still wouldn't know how the economy works if not for this forum. Which is also disappointing and frustrating. Whoever wrote the manual did a terrible job of explaining the world market. I hope that some enterprising moderator creates a sticky post here or in the FAQ that describes how the trade system works (if they haven't already).
Anyway, since this is what we've got, I guess I'd better learn to like it. On that note, it seems like part of the problem here is that there is way too much coal and steel available in the game. In fact it seems like there is more coal and steel available across the world than anyone can possibly use. If these materials were harder to get then it wouldn't be possible to just trade away or convert your massive surpluses into oil and/or rubber. So perhaps a realistic way to improve this situation would be to reduce the overall amount of coal and iron in the game.
Having now read this thread, I too find the trade & resource model in this game a disappointment. Btw do the devs comment matters like these in the HoI boards or is it just the beta dudes? Would be nice to know if this is being planned to be changed or tweaked at all.. I myself find this to be a top priority considering making the game significantly better
I was playing Sweden and managed to get almost 30000 oil and 10000 rubber in the first 4 years though the world market. Then I got into a war with Russia (who already where beaten by Germany and only had URAL-Vladivostok left) and suddenly the Price of everything was "doubled" on the world market. Guess Russia controls the oceans? No they have no navy left...
It is a little strange that you start with 200 (?) of everything as Sweden and after 4 years you have around 60000 in total. That doesnt "feel" right...
I dont know how much you can change without "thrashing" the game but here are a few suggestions:
- It should be possible to lower the stacked OIL of a nation though strategic bombing.
- The amount of goods you get from the world market when you are at war should be relative to your own and your enemies naval strength. Now its 50% of the peacetime amount right? I think it should vary between lets say 5-95% (for 100 steel you get maybe 50 oil during peacetime but during wartime you get 45 oil if you are at war with a nation with NO navy and 5 oil if you have NO navy yourself and your enemy has a BIG one.
These were just suggestions and I am really tired... woke up to write this...
BTW: If I play Germany and I am at war with England can I still get rubber from their offers in the world market? Or can I only count the rubber offered from nations whom I am not at war with? I hope its the latter!
It is a little strange that you start with 200 (?) of everything as Sweden and after 4 years you have around 60000 in total. That doesnt "feel" right...
I dont know how much you can change without "thrashing" the game but here are a few suggestions:
- It should be possible to lower the stacked OIL of a nation though strategic bombing.
- The amount of goods you get from the world market when you are at war should be relative to your own and your enemies naval strength. Now its 50% of the peacetime amount right? I think it should vary between lets say 5-95% (for 100 steel you get maybe 50 oil during peacetime but during wartime you get 45 oil if you are at war with a nation with NO navy and 5 oil if you have NO navy yourself and your enemy has a BIG one.
These were just suggestions and I am really tired... woke up to write this...
BTW: If I play Germany and I am at war with England can I still get rubber from their offers in the world market? Or can I only count the rubber offered from nations whom I am not at war with? I hope its the latter!