Trading Questions

[NADster]

After playing around with the demo there are some questions left about trade:

1. How do I use my light ships most effectively?
Should I use them in one large bulk in one trade node or split them up to the nodes I located my merchants? That is under peace, so no "bigger fleets are safer" considerations.
It seems that watching my income after testing a few variants, the "one big fleet protecting the home node" works best. Is this true?

2. Is it safe to embargo my rivals?
Are there any downsides except to anger them if I embargo my rivals? So, is it almost a no-brainer to do this?

3. What about fleet maintenance?
I seem to get a better balance if I reduce my fleet maintenance although this reduces the trading power my light ships provide as well. Will this change if the nodes increase their value? Or will it remain quite the same because at the time the nodes become more prosperous the power provided by buildings will outpace my light ships?

 

[unperson]

1. You can get power in a node in 3 ways, provinces, placing a merchant, and ships. If you already own most of the power in a node, adding ships will most likely be redundant, and they will be more effective in nodes where there is more competition.
For example, as Portugal, you have Castille as a strong competitor, so placing many ships in your home node will help a lot.

2. Not realy sure, but I think they will also get a casus belli against you that could severly reduce your trade for years in the node if they win.

3. Depends on the node I guess. In a rich node the trading power you gain with full maintanence could easily bring in more money then what you pay for the ships

EDIT: Just checked and issuing embargos will also reduce your overall trade efficiency, so its possbile that it will hurt you a lot mroe then it hurts them if you have a big trade empire.

 

[Calahir]

I have a couple of questions too. Is it possible to redirect a province from one trade node to another? What does define the name of a node? Is it a province with the supreme trade power in the node? Can I change this name by pumping one of my province's trade power above the power of current node's 'capital'?

 

[NADster]

EDIT: Just checked and issuing embargos will also reduce your overall trade efficiency, so its possbile that it will hurt you a lot mroe then it hurts them if you have a big trade empire.

That is true for embargoing non-rivals. Enacting an embargo against a rival will not reduce your own trade efficiency ...

@ Calahir: I think it's a "no" for your first and last question (without modding).

 

[knul]

I have a couple of questions too. Is it possible to redirect a province from one trade node to another? What does define the name of a node? Is it a province with the supreme trade power in the node? Can I change this name by pumping one of my province's trade power above the power of current node's 'capital'?

AFAIK trade nodes and the territory associated with each one are static. Node names are most likely also static.

 

[Calahir]

AFAIK trade nodes and the territory associated with each one are static. Node names are most likely also static.

This is silly then. Trade has never been static. Especially in the time of constant war.

 

[knul]

This is silly then. Trade has never been static. Especially in the time of constant war.

It isn't static. The value of each node and the trade directed via each route is very dynamic.

 

[KaiserJohanHome]

1. You can get power in a node in 3 ways, provinces, placing a merchant, and ships. If you already own most of the power in a node, adding ships will most likely be redundant, and they will be more effective in nodes where there is more competition.
For example, as Portugal, you have Castille as a strong competitor, so placing many ships in your home node will help a lot.

Can you explain abit more? Why would they be more effective in nodes with more competition? Why isn't it better to eat the whole cake in one trade node rather than eating parts of it in 3?

 

[unperson]

Can you explain abit more? Why would they be more effective in nodes with more competition?

Lets say there is a node where you are the only nation with power (you own 100% of the trade power in the node), in that case you can already collect/transfer all of the trade as you wish. Sending ships to patrol here wouldn't do much (besides keeping pirates from appearing so 1 ship is still good idea).
But if you could boost your trade power in seville for example from 50% to 75% with ships that would be a considerable gain.

In the demo you can see that in Mauretian coast node, portugal can transfer about 70% of the trade downstream without having ships there, just because there is almost no other competition.
Another example is that if you create a colony in the cape node you would control 100% of the trade because no other nation would have any power there, so having extra ships wouldn't get you anything more.

Why isn't it better to eat the whole cake in one trade node rather than eating parts of it in 3?

Because you can already have close to max or max trade power in nodes without competition without having to patrol them with ships. Of course as time goes on and other nations start getting colonies in the node or send merchants there, having ships becomes a good choice again .

 

[ahhheygao]

In most of these trade discussions, there's an emphasis on forwarding trade flow to the capital's trade node. So what should be done when a realm's capital trade node only has outgoing flow with no incoming flow? For example, Ming's capital of Beijing. Short of relocating the capital to a different trade node, what would be the optimal strategy? Place merchants at downstream nodes and try to collect there?

 

[unperson]

In most of these trade discussions, there's an emphasis on forwarding trade flow to the capital's trade node. So what should be done when a realm's capital trade node only has outgoing flow with no incoming flow? For example, Ming's capital of Beijing. Short of relocating the capital to a different trade node, what would be the optimal strategy? Place merchants at downstream nodes and try to collect there?

Well I have no experience on that, having only played the demo so what follows is only my theory.

What could be a good strategy as ming is to get as much power in your home node and all neighbouring nodes as possible (and sending power back to your home node), thus preventing trade from flowing away from you. Also building up trade value as high as possible by building all the trade buildings you can. This way you would be able to collect the maximum amount in your home node.

Another way is as you said, find a node downstream and build up as much power as you can and collect there.

Without playing the full game its hard to say what strategy would work best for Ming, but my assumption is that due to lower tech levels it would be considerably harder for them to gain lots of trade power outside their home provinces (without conquering lots of land there of course).

 

[pgroves]

I've just been playing the demo as Venice and have taken Ragusa, which is a trade node. Would it now be better to have my merchant there Collect trade instead of push it to Venice?

 

[KaiserJohanHome]

Lets say there is a node where you are the only nation with power (you own 100% of the trade power in the node), in that case you can already collect/transfer all of the trade as you wish. Sending ships to patrol here wouldn't do much (besides keeping pirates from appearing so 1 ship is still good idea).
But if you could boost your trade power in seville for example from 50% to 75% with ships that would be a considerable gain.

In the demo you can see that in Mauretian coast node, portugal can transfer about 70% of the trade downstream without having ships there, just because there is almost no other competition.
Another example is that if you create a colony in the cape node you would control 100% of the trade because no other nation would have any power there, so having extra ships wouldn't get you anything more.

Because you can already have close to max or max trade power in nodes without competition without having to patrol them with ships. Of course as time goes on and other nations start getting colonies in the node or send merchants there, having ships becomes a good choice again .

Yeah, for those nodes when you already got 100% sure that makes sense, but in the case of European trade nodes where you never iwll get completely 100%, for example Venice, with Venice, Ragusa and Alexandria trade nodes. Where should you really patrol your ships and why? You will compete with 20+ nations in all of them already. Should you just use all Light ships on Venice trade node? How much to focus on trade steer and how much to focus on trade collect?

 

[Mayernik311]

I've just been playing the demo as Venice and have taken Ragusa, which is a trade node. Would it now be better to have my merchant there Collect trade instead of push it to Venice?

I believe their is a penalty for collecting at a node which not in your capital. If this is the case it's better to forward trade to Venice in this situation.

 

[unperson]

I've just been playing the demo as Venice and have taken Ragusa, which is a trade node. Would it now be better to have my merchant there Collect trade instead of push it to Venice?

Home nodes have a bonus to power so most likely it better to steer trade home and collect there. But it depends on the exact situation, probably best is to experiment both ways and see what choice makes more money.

 

[unperson]

Yeah, for those nodes when you already got 100% sure that makes sense, but in the case of European trade nodes where you never iwll get completely 100%, for example Venice, with Venice, Ragusa and Alexandria trade nodes. Where should you really patrol your ships and why? You will compete with 20+ nations in all of them already. Should you just use all Light ships on Venice trade node? How much to focus on trade steer and how much to focus on trade collect?

For Venice its much more worth it to use all ships patrolling the home node ( at least at the start ). Venice node is rich and you can grab a big slice of the trade there.
In Ragusa or Alexandria your power is pretty limited due to not having much/any provinces. The income you get from patrollign your home node is bigger then trying to improve steering from ragusa/alexandria, expeciall because ragusa is only worth ~2 gold, and alexandria 3 gold, not even reaching the value of Venice combined.
Ofcourse later if more trade flows into those nodes it might be more profitable to use ships there, all the above applies to the start of the demo.

So you can't just sit back and use one strategy, you have to adjust to changing circumstances

 

[pgroves]

Home nodes have a bonus to power so most likely it better to steer trade home and collect there. But it depends on the exact situation, probably best is to experiment both ways and see what choice makes more money.

Okay, thanks for the info., as far as I can tell, looks better to send it onto Venice

 

[arctus]

in case of Portugal, say you have 100 % trade power in cape and you Transfer the trade from india there. isnt it than more effective to collect this trade in cape and not in Sevilla? this way you would get 100 % of the Money in that node, otherwise in Sevilla lesser because of competion with spain

 

[unperson]

in case of Portugal, say you have 100 % trade power in cape and you Transfer the trade from india there. isnt it than more effective to collect this trade in cape and not in Sevilla? this way you would get 100 % oh the Money in that node, otherwise in Sevilla lesser because of competion with spain

You get a big bonus for collecting in your home node, so you would have to test both cases to see if its more profitable to collect in the cape.

 

[arctus]

You get a big bonus for collecting in your home node, so you would have to test both cases to see if its more profitable to collect in the cape.

i try it and got power in every trade node from gulf of aden till Sevilla butthen in 1517 the demo freezed