Trading in B.S.

[piratefish]

I'm getting a little sick of setting up trades only to have them cancelled by the other nation one or two days later. It's happening so often that it is beginning to become a gamebreaker for me.

During the last half of 1936 and first half of 1937 (playing as Germany), I have made over 100 trades that repeatedly get cancelled by any/every nation within a couple of days of creating the swap. Getting really pissed off and sick of wasting my time with a (seemingly) broken trade system. I have never had an issue like this with any previous versions (playing beta 3).

Anyone else having this extremely irritating problem?

 

[makif130289]

I'm getting a little sick of setting up trades only to have them cancelled by the other nation one or two days later. It's happening so often that it is beginning to become a gamebreaker for me.

During the last half of 1936 and first half of 1937 (playing as Germany), I have made over 100 trades that repeatedly get cancelled by any/every nation within a couple of days of creating the swap. Getting really pissed off and sick of wasting my time with a (seemingly) broken trade system. I have never had an issue like this with any previous versions (playing beta 3).

Anyone else having this extremely irritating problem?

which countries are cancelling trade agreements and for which products ? You buy steel from Sweden and Rares and Steel from Soviet Union, right ?

 

[Blecky]

This usually happens whenever this country runs short on the resource it just traded with you or if the country is importing it itself. Which means buying rares from Estonia, which has 1.5 rares surplus will be cancelled one or two dasy later, because it has to buy rares from someone else. Cancelling trades when i have to pay more to get replacements for the goods I just sold seems somewhat sensible to me.

However there should be a mechanism that simply prevents e.g. Estonia from offering those resources in the first place.

 

[piratefish]

I try to avoid trading with a known future enemy (unrealistic, I know, but I like to be able to have my needs met without benefiting the needs of a nation with whom I will be slugging it out in a few years).

I do trade heavily with Sweden for rares and metal, and with Finland for rares. As Germany, I also climb into bed with Italy (providing them with much needed energy in exchange for threir surplus rares and metal), and to a much lesser extent Switzerland, Romania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia.

If I must, I will then turn to some of the future minor Allied nations like the Netherlands, Belgium, and Denmark. I almost never go outside of Europe for trades I initiate as I do not like having to provide the transportation for the trades (too much exposure to my convoys when war eventually breaks out).

This being said, I am experiencing the problem with ANY and EVERY nation I initiate new trades with after the second half of 1936. It doesn't matter if it is trading with Estonia for 0.7 or their 1.5 available rares (I never max out another nation's available surplus resources for the very reason cited by Blecky; I usually limit my offer to about half of what is shown to be available), or whether I am trading with the Netherlands for 4 or 5 of their 30+ surplus of rares. Without fail, 99% of the trades are canceled within 2 or 3 days at most.

One explanatory theory I am working on, and one that shows some real promise so far, is what commodity I am trading away in exchange for what I want. I am starting to conclude that if I am simply paying cash for the resource I want, the other nation will quickly cancel the trade. Whereas if I am trading away one of my surplus resources (usually either energy or supplies as Germany), the other nation is infinitiely more likely to continue to honor my trade agreement.

This observation is leading me to believe that long-term trades are more likely to be honored when there is an actual barter rather than payment. At least this observation of what I am trading seems to have much greater explanatory power than who I am trading with.

 

[makif130289]

I try to avoid trading with a known future enemy (unrealistic, I know, but I like to be able to have my needs met without benefiting the needs of a nation with whom I will be slugging it out in a few years).

I do trade heavily with Sweden for rares and metal, and with Finland for rares. As Germany, I also climb into bed with Italy (providing them with much needed energy in exchange for threir surplus rares and metal), and to a much lesser extent Switzerland, Romania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia.

If I must, I will then turn to some of the future minor Allied nations like the Netherlands, Belgium, and Denmark. I almost never go outside of Europe for trades I initiate as I do not like having to provide the transportation for the trades (too much exposure to my convoys when war eventually breaks out).

This being said, I am experencing the problem with ANY and EVERY nation I initiate new trades with after the second half of 1936. It doesn't matter if it is trading with Estonia for 0.7 or their 1.5 available rares (I never max out another nation's available surplus resources for the very reason cited by Blecky; I usually limit my offer to about half of what is shown to be available), or whether I am trading with the Netherlands for 4 or 5 of their 30+ surplus of rares. Without fail, 99% of the trades are canceled within 2 or 3 days at most.

One explanatory theory I am working on, and one that shows some real promise so far, is what commodity I am trading away in exchange for what I want. I am starting to conclude that if I am simply paying cash for the resource I want, the other nation will quickly cancel the trade. Whereas if I am trading away one of my surplus resources (usually either energy or supplies as Germany), the other nation is infinitiely more likely to continue to honor my trade agreement.

This observation is leading me to believe that long-term trades are more likely to be honored when there is an actual barter rather than payment. At least this observation of what I am trading seems to have much greater explanatory power than who I am trading with.

I am trading with Sweden and Soviet Union heavily and doesn't have such a problem. I didn't trust Dutch for trade, they don't like trading with me. You are trading with so many minors, so they may be unable to honor their agreement as pointed out by blecky.

 

[piratefish]

You are trading with so many minors, so they may be unable to honor their agreement as pointed out by blecky.

This never really seemed to matter before Beta 3. It's the same trade strategy I have been employing since my first HoI game back in 2004.

 

[makif130289]

This never really seemed to matter before Beta 3. It's the same trade strategy I have been employing since my first HoI game back in 2004.

ok, then devs should be looking on it. However, I must admit that I like the situation that Germany lacking resources when it doesn't trade with Soviet Union.

 

[unmerged(255517)]

I have experienced this situation too. In a German 1936 campaign, I was trading for Netherland's rare materials. They had a surplus of about +25, and I would set up deals for about 15 of them. Every week or so, the deal would be canceled, and it was a huge pain to set it up 50 times every game year (literally). I could not afford to quit dealing with them, since doing so would bankrupt me of rares.

An imperfect solution to this problem was the auto-trader. Tell it want you want, and what you're willing to give up, and it'll do the trading for you. The deals are surprisingly well done. I feel like I could do them better myself, but only by a little (and sometimes the AI makes brilliant trades that I would have never stumbled across). Check your deals every month or so, and cancel anyone that you don't like. Usually, you'll be canceling nothing at all.

 

[makif130289]

I have experienced this situation too. In a German 1936 campaign, I was trading for Netherland's rare materials. They had a surplus of about +25, and I would set up deals for about 15 of them. Every week or so, the deal would be canceled, and it was a huge pain to set it up 50 times every game year (literally). I could not afford to quit dealing with them, since doing so would bankrupt me of rares.

An imperfect solution to this problem was the auto-trader. Tell it want you want, and what you're willing to give up, and it'll do the trading for you. The deals are surprisingly well done. I feel like I could do them better myself, but only by a little (and sometimes the AI makes brilliant trades that I would have never stumbled across). Check your deals every month or so, and cancel anyone that you don't like. Usually, you'll be canceling nothing at all.

don't trust Dutch for rares, they simply don't like you. Soviet Union is the best and most reliable source of rares for you. You may also make trade with USA before the war.

 

[Herodotus]

One thing I have noticed is that trade with the Netherlands often get cancelled.
I have noticed that the Dutch have stockpiles of rares in the Dutch East Indies and that the amount of convoys the Netherlands allocates to ship these back home fluctuates from one day to the next. Hence the Dutch rare surplus also fluctuates from one day to the next. Therefore trades set up on a 'good day' will get cancelled on a 'bad day'.
Trades with countries that don't have to convoy their ressources back home from colonies (eg Sweden, USSR, Finland) are much more stable and don't get cancelled so often...while trades with countries depending on automatic convoys to ship their ressources back to the mother country (eg the Netherlands) often get cancelled due to fluctuating ressource surplus.

 

[unmerged(255517)]

This makes sense, Herodotus. Rare trades I set up with Canada always seem to stick, even though they are a part of the Allies.

In response to makif, I'd say I agree with your advice. Trading with the SU is a lot better, especially since pillaging the Netherland's capital is very easy to do, giving you all the rares that they have stored there. Problem is (and this is something I've noticed time and time again), the AI will arbitrarily decide not to trade certain resources. This happens each time you load a game. For instance, I started a 1936 Germany, and both the SU and the Netherlands' rare supplies were listed as "+0.00" on January 2nd, even though I knew that wasn't true. I played that out for awhile, but eventually starved on rares before the war even broke out. I loaded my file as Russia, and they were sitting on a five figure stockpile of rares, even though they absolutely refused to trade me any.

I have found that loading a game causes the AI to refresh their arbitrary restrictions. The SU may put all their goods on sale, they may horde metal, they may horde metal, rares, and oil. It seems entirely random, and if there is one feature of AoD that I dislike the most, this is the one. Does anyone else have experience with this issue?

 

[Blecky]

This makes sense, Herodotus. Rare trades I set up with Canada always seem to stick, even though they are a part of the Allies.

In response to makif, I'd say I agree with your advice. Trading with the SU is a lot better, especially since pillaging the Netherland's capital is very easy to do, giving you all the rares that they have stored there. Problem is (and this is something I've noticed time and time again), the AI will arbitrarily decide not to trade certain resources. This happens each time you load a game. For instance, I started a 1936 Germany, and both the SU and the Netherlands' rare supplies were listed as "+0.00" on January 2nd, even though I knew that wasn't true. I played that out for awhile, but eventually starved on rares before the war even broke out. I loaded my file as Russia, and they were sitting on a five figure stockpile of rares, even though they absolutely refused to trade me any.

I have found that loading a game causes the AI to refresh their arbitrary restrictions. The SU may put all their goods on sale, they may horde metal, they may horde metal, rares, and oil. It seems entirely random, and if there is one feature of AoD that I dislike the most, this is the one. Does anyone else have experience with this issue?

Resources that don´t appear to be available even though another country has a surplus production happened to me only when I load a game without quitting the program before. Once I´ve left the complete program and start it again any previous malfunctioning stopped.

 

[unmerged(52751)]

I have found that an effective method to deal with this problem is to set the cost to cancel trade deals to a high amount, like $200, that way as the AI never has much money on hand they will be unable to cancel the trade.

 

[QuestGAV]

That's a great little trick, how do you change that value?