Trading/Gifting/Leasing Fleets

[Tincan322]

Why can't we somehow give fleets or other military assets to allies or subjects, sending volunteer forces or arming puppet states have been around for a long time and I don't see why it would be any different in the far future. I just like the idea of being a pacifist empire but still funding puppets to fight wars for me. Or to have a space cold war where neither side wants to fight directly so they use the new espionage system to make enemies of smaller states and fund them with fleets. A feudal star empire could be taking a levy of ships from its vassals or could be giving its vassals more ships so that can fit more for themselves. It could be done in the trade tab, couldn't it?

 

[klopkr]

I would LOVE to send my fleets as EU4 style condottieri, or rent them out as galactic police, or just sell the old designs to other empires, or to be able to license fleets to my allies!

This is a 23rd century game so more mechanics around things our 21st century nations already can do would be great!

 

[MordridBlack]

Why can't we somehow give fleets or other military assets to allies or subjects, sending volunteer forces or arming puppet states have been around for a long time and I don't see why it would be any different in the far future. I just like the idea of being a pacifist empire but still funding puppets to fight wars for me. Or to have a space cold war where neither side wants to fight directly so they use the new espionage system to make enemies of smaller states and fund them with fleets. A feudal star empire could be taking a levy of ships from its vassals or could be giving its vassals more ships so that can fit more for themselves. It could be done in the trade tab, couldn't it?

have you seen what happens to your economy as while playing the Scion Origin and your FE gives you a fleet?

now imagine that but more on fire

the AI are well known to have horrible economies and are also incredibly stupid

I'd rather not give any AI (even the ones I'm allied with in some fashion) a fleet they will not be able to fund and would likely destroy


you want that option, it's called being in a Federation and having a federation fleet; the fleet rotates around with the federation "ownership" [usually every 10-20 years or so]

 

[BorbiBoy]

the AI are well known to have horrible economies and are also incredibly stupid

Everybody knows, the AI is not trustworthy, so i think its an killer argument, thats rarely relevant. You could basicly counter every suggestion of new mechanics by saying: "But the AI is not so good..."
This argument implies, that every new mechanic, that is not allready in the game is a bad idea, because of the derpy AI.

I actually love the idee to be able to lend fleets as a trade option. It sounds like such an obvious addition to the game. The marauders allready do that to some extend. See also the stellaris wiki:

Mercenary fleets cost a large [E] Energy up-front payment, and consist of a fixed-size fleet that cannot be split, merged or disbanded, with a leader that cannot be reassigned. The fleet does not count towards [N] Naval Capacity , but will only serve for a period of 5 years, after which the empire will have to renew their contract by paying the full cost again.

 

[malakhglitch]

Oooh. I like the idea of being able to make mercenary companies/fleets.

 

[Zoomy]

This would be perfect for Naval Contractors and slash or Private Military Companies. Would give Megacorps something unique you can't do (usually better) as a normal empire. Or, if the idea is extended to all empires, those civics could give some form of bonus to the mechanic.

 

[Ryika]

Everybody knows, the AI is not trustworthy, so i think its an killer argument, thats rarely relevant. You could basicly counter every suggestion of new mechanics by saying: "But the AI is not so good..."
This argument implies, that every new mechanic, that is not allready in the game is a bad idea, because of the derpy AI.

I actually love the idee to be able to lend fleets as a trade option. It sounds like such an obvious addition to the game. The marauders allready do that to some extend. See also the stellaris wiki:

I think the AI argument has some merit when the suggestion involves systems where the player can actively abuse the AI. In such situations it is not just "the AI is too bad to use it and will fall behind", it's "the AI is too bad to prevent the player from abusing the hell out of them". The problem I see isn't so much about the AI, it's about the cohesiveness of the game design potentially taking a big hit when the best way to gain power is to metagame the AI.

However, I believe it wouldn't be too hard to design a system that prevents the grossest of abuses. So I don't really see it as a "counter-argument", and more as something that needs to be kept in mind if/when such a system is designed.

The actual concept of trading or leasing sounds like a lot of fun though. Might even help break the AI stalemates a bit easier.

 

[BorbiBoy]

I think the AI argument has some merit when the suggestion involves systems where the player can actively abuse the AI. In such situations it is not just "the AI is too bad to use it and will fall behind", it's "the AI is too bad to prevent the player from abusing the hell out of them". The problem I see isn't so much about the AI, it's about the cohesiveness of the game design potentially taking a big hit when the best way to gain power is to metagame the AI.

I agree with you Ryika ^^

The Problem with MordridBlack's post i had was, that it came across as, "your suggestion X is invalid because of the bad AI", reminded me more or less of the "Perfect solution fallacy".
In addition befor that an "Association fallacy" was made by stating:

have you seen what happens to your economy as while playing the Scion Origin and your FE gives you a fleet?

now imagine that but more on fire

Both fallacies are presented as arguments against the trading, gifting, leasing, etc. of fleets:

you want that option, it's called being in a Federation and having a federation fleet; the fleet rotates around with the federation "ownership" [usually every 10-20 years or so]

But in reality the arguments made by MordridBlack are just points of interest, that should be considered when trying to implement such mechanics, not arguments against them.

 

[MathyM]

It would be nice addition to the diplomatic game in general, as well as a possible way to buff Barbaric Despoilers, since they are supposed to be kind of like player-controlled Marauders.