Is there a primer someplace for how to work the trade system? While I have the basic idea I don't know how to optimize it. And it's unclear how to evaluate the best place to send trade ships or how they are doing.
Trade
- Thread starter lizardo
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Evaluating trade optimization is more difficult in 1.8 now that next month's trade income only updates at the beginning of the month, so there's no way to isolate the exact cause of a change in trade income from month to month. (Before, you could have a fleet protect trade, observe the projected trade income, then take it off protecting trade and wait a day.)
The general rule, though, is that there's diminishing returns on increasing trade power. If there are multiple nodes where wealth flows away from you (either by being steered toward a node where you have no power, or by being collected by another nation), it's generally best to split your fleets among those nodes such that the gain in wealth flowing toward you (either by being steered toward a node where you have power, or by collecting it yourself) is even.
By the way, never trust the tooltip that tells you how much a fleet will profit from protecting trade. It's blatantly wrong.
The general rule, though, is that there's diminishing returns on increasing trade power. If there are multiple nodes where wealth flows away from you (either by being steered toward a node where you have no power, or by being collected by another nation), it's generally best to split your fleets among those nodes such that the gain in wealth flowing toward you (either by being steered toward a node where you have power, or by collecting it yourself) is even.
By the way, never trust the tooltip that tells you how much a fleet will profit from protecting trade. It's blatantly wrong.
If I can't trust the tool tip, what should i look at to determine how many ships to send where? The evil tool tip is telling me it's of negative value to have my ships parked at my home port (English Channel) but without them I don't have the trade power to be 'first' there. If that matters.
I did create a second collection point in Ceylon and that seemed to work well.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between privateers and trading ships. I've been assuming that the 'trade' ships are like floating markets.
It really should be required that merchant ships do this instead of war ships.
I did create a second collection point in Ceylon and that seemed to work well.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between privateers and trading ships. I've been assuming that the 'trade' ships are like floating markets.
It really should be required that merchant ships do this instead of war ships.
Light ships are merchant ships. Ignore that the game calls them 'frigates' - like most of the labels, these are obviously wrong. Trust the function, not the name.
(The fact that merchantmen are solely troop transports is kind of bizarre. Actually, the idea of dedicated troop transports is itself bizarre and anachronistic.)
Besides not knowing where to send my ships, or really having any idea what they are doing there, is the problem of managing them.
When I want to add ships to a merchant fleet trading some place (or any fleet for that matter, or army) I have to nursemaid them all the way there, grab the target fleet and manually join them.
Would it be so difficult to have a function that assigns one fleet to go join another. Or the obverse, fleets and armies with specifications for what their complement should be that draw new or unassigned units to them.
When I want to add ships to a merchant fleet trading some place (or any fleet for that matter, or army) I have to nursemaid them all the way there, grab the target fleet and manually join them.
Would it be so difficult to have a function that assigns one fleet to go join another. Or the obverse, fleets and armies with specifications for what their complement should be that draw new or unassigned units to them.
Devs are working on that I believe.
Basically, if you want to up your power in a node, either get some land there or send more light ships.
Well, yes, but how much (ships) is enough? What are the values I want to look for?
At this point (as England) I've got several hundred ships doing trading, 50 in Lubeck alone, but I've no idea how to determin the benefit, if any, that I'm getting as a whole or in particular locations. My blind strategy has been to have a collection point and put ships one degree of separation away with a few ships and trader at the center.
My analogy is to view the collection center as a money vacuum or black cash hole with the ships sweeping monetary debris in that direction.
I see some high value nodes, throw ships at them and hope enough coins come back that at least the cost of the ships is paid.
At this point (as England) I've got several hundred ships doing trading, 50 in Lubeck alone, but I've no idea how to determin the benefit, if any, that I'm getting as a whole or in particular locations. My blind strategy has been to have a collection point and put ships one degree of separation away with a few ships and trader at the center.
My analogy is to view the collection center as a money vacuum or black cash hole with the ships sweeping monetary debris in that direction.
I see some high value nodes, throw ships at them and hope enough coins come back that at least the cost of the ships is paid.
Well, yes, but how much (ships) is enough? What are the values I want to look for?
At this point (as England) I've got several hundred ships doing trading, 50 in Lubeck alone, but I've no idea how to determin the benefit, if any, that I'm getting as a whole or in particular locations. My blind strategy has been to have a collection point and put ships one degree of separation away with a few ships and trader at the center.
My analogy is to view the collection center as a money vacuum or black cash hole with the ships sweeping monetary debris in that direction.
I see some high value nodes, throw ships at them and hope enough coins come back that at least the cost of the ships is paid.
Put them all in English Channel until the *propogated* trade value dominance (1st order node propogation) starts seriously diminishing, then start putting them in farflung nodes you need more power in. It's not worth putting any in Lubeck, because you can just swamp local trade power there by having 2-300 light ships in the English Channel, while simultaneously also swamping Ivory Coast and North Sea.
Look at the node of intrest. Open up the info box and read it. It has all the info in it.
If, say, we are netherlands and fighting for trade in the english channel. Then you look to see how much trade power share is yours. Look to see who else is there, and with how much power, and how they are getting that power.
Now on the subject of "how many light ships" well that has an endless array of variables. There is no answer. You put in what you can afford, and still make a profit. Light ships alone are a very inefficient way to get trade power. Ships cost money to own and opperate, so a node has to be very valuable to be worth the investment of ships.
Now back in the channel... early game it might be worth 50 ducats. You may be at 25% trade power, and notice england is at 50% trade power, because they have 50 ships there. Now if you try to match his 50 ships, perhaps you can then cut into his share, and get 40% trade power. going from 25 to 40% of 50 ducats may only earn you an extra 10 a month. 50 ships cost 1000 to make and another 10 to maintain (asuming over force limit costs). For generally a net loss. However you did weaken english trade power so they loose money. And maybe that's worth it.
However in general, it wasnt worth all that effort and investment that early... Better off spending less money on galleys and sinking that english fleet.
Late game however, everything changes. Now after colonies are made, you may have 1000 ducats in the channel. England may have 400 ships patrolling there... and it is well worth the investment to outmatch it, and DoW to sink some boats for that kind of cash.
So there is no answer to your question. too many variable. If you want an answer to your specific case, then include screenshots.
If, say, we are netherlands and fighting for trade in the english channel. Then you look to see how much trade power share is yours. Look to see who else is there, and with how much power, and how they are getting that power.
Now on the subject of "how many light ships" well that has an endless array of variables. There is no answer. You put in what you can afford, and still make a profit. Light ships alone are a very inefficient way to get trade power. Ships cost money to own and opperate, so a node has to be very valuable to be worth the investment of ships.
Now back in the channel... early game it might be worth 50 ducats. You may be at 25% trade power, and notice england is at 50% trade power, because they have 50 ships there. Now if you try to match his 50 ships, perhaps you can then cut into his share, and get 40% trade power. going from 25 to 40% of 50 ducats may only earn you an extra 10 a month. 50 ships cost 1000 to make and another 10 to maintain (asuming over force limit costs). For generally a net loss. However you did weaken english trade power so they loose money. And maybe that's worth it.
However in general, it wasnt worth all that effort and investment that early... Better off spending less money on galleys and sinking that english fleet.
Late game however, everything changes. Now after colonies are made, you may have 1000 ducats in the channel. England may have 400 ships patrolling there... and it is well worth the investment to outmatch it, and DoW to sink some boats for that kind of cash.
So there is no answer to your question. too many variable. If you want an answer to your specific case, then include screenshots.
Be sure to build trade related buildings in the trade nodes you want increased trading power in, definitely worth the cost in Diplo points and provides a bit of war time security if you should ever have to hide a trade fleet in port. The AI will build them, and if you aren't as well then you aren't being competitive with them as much as you could be.
As an example;
My hansa game... Overview of europe.
The only trade flets i have running are for contested nodes. The channel of course, for collection, and St lawrence and carribean to make sure the cash flows towards the channel. This screesnhot is prior to me completeing my ivory coast colonies, thus needing another fleet there.
I have only a few ships (40) because I'm the hansa and dont need no stinking ships. 100 mercantilism + hansa ideas make my provinces much more powerful. However in another 100 years, and when I'm into India, the fleets will grow as the cash flow grows.
My hansa game... Overview of europe.
The only trade flets i have running are for contested nodes. The channel of course, for collection, and St lawrence and carribean to make sure the cash flows towards the channel. This screesnhot is prior to me completeing my ivory coast colonies, thus needing another fleet there.
I have only a few ships (40) because I'm the hansa and dont need no stinking ships. 100 mercantilism + hansa ideas make my provinces much more powerful. However in another 100 years, and when I'm into India, the fleets will grow as the cash flow grows.
Is it worth collecting at other nodes? I notices that there is a severe penalty for collecting at a node not your capitol.
Sometimes yes (Playing Genoa, at the start you better collect in Crimea, after the g\me goes on and you gain control of ragusa&cons it has no sense, than after you capture venice you'd be better collecting at venice), sometimes no.