Trade Wars

[JohnnyNeptune]

Hi,

I was wondering if I could get some advise.

I've read several guides and posts stating the importance of going over one's own naval limit in producing light ships in order to dominate trade nods. Now the few games I've played (as France) I've followed that advise and yet never seem to outcompete my main naval rivals, Spain and GB. They always build more ships than me and inevitably come to control a trade nod(s) I'm focusing on. In my latest game for example I'm 100+ ships over my limit (170/66), I'm spending a significant amount of money and monarch pts going over this limit (including building naval buildings where appropriate) and yet ENG/GB inevitably build up more ships than me as does Spain.

Should I press on and continue to build more ships or will the AI continue to scale up, outpace me and eventually lead me to financial ruin ?
Would getting the Naval idea and/or Trade idea make a significant difference?

If the AI now scales up (in this version of the game) I'm fine with that I would just like to know and spend my resources elsewhere.

Thank you.

 

[justin6477]

Naval and Trade will make a difference, but the main issue is that you're doing it wrong.

France is a tremendously wealthy country. If you build all of your buildings and expand East, you can have a production-based income that rivals a world-spanning Spain. However, that's my 1.3.x experience. CoP is going to turn everything on its head, so all bets are off. For now though, you may as well disband your fleets.

 

[unmerged(761791)]

1. Get navel and trade ideas
2. You also need to consider embargoing
3. You have to build trade buildings such as roads, canals, marketplaces, etc.
4. Nations like France are less "apt" at trade. Instead, try building stock markets to exploit your ridiculous province wealth.

 

[unmerged(780209)]

The problem for France is that you are steering to the Bordeaux node, which is down-stream from Sevilla for trade coming round the Cape of Good Hope from Asia. That's going to cause problems if Spain or Portugal is a major trade power. They will build more and more light ships and compete with you.

If you have the most colonies in the Caribbean or Chesapeake trade nodes, you can easily trade steer to Bordeaux.

But, 170 light ships is not really enough. I have about 1100 as Portugal in 1715 and that is enough to dominate the Sevilla node by around 93%. This gives me about 1500 ducats a month income, mostly because of my development of my Chinese and Indian provinces.

If you are still in the 17th century or earlier the struggles you have are to be expected. You need to colonize more and increase your income base in order to be able to afford more light ships. Hundreds more in fact.

As France you have a huge advantage in that your land strength enables you to crush your enemies. How about allying with some other major power like Russia or the Ottomans and crushing England, Portugal or Spain? Seize a couple of their provinces and feed them to your vassal and set about dismembering them.

As for Britain, they like to choose Naval Ideas and build up their fleet. You will have to take them out at some point.

Once you succeed in vassalizing them you can dominate Bordeaux or London and collect trade there.

How about making war on them and forcing them to release Ireland, Scotland or Wales? Then vassalize that minor and feed them. After a few wars, you should whittle them down to size until they are ready to sing La Marseillaise!

In my last game, France was allied with Russia and that made life virtually impossible for the other powers. In every war, Russian hordes and French hordes just wore down every other power.

I think France should be played as both an aggressive conqueror and an aggressive colonizer.

 

[JohnnyNeptune]

Naval and Trade will make a difference, but the main issue is that you're doing it wrong.

France is a tremendously wealthy country. If you build all of your buildings and expand East, you can have a production-based income that rivals a world-spanning Spain. However, that's my 1.3.x experience. CoP is going to turn everything on its head, so all bets are off. For now though, you may as well disband your fleets.

Thanks all for the responses.

Just to be clear with the one above . When you say "expand east" do you mean into Germany or do you mean colonizing Asia ?

 

[justin6477]

Thanks all for the responses.

Just to be clear with the one above . When you say "expand east" do you mean into Germany or do you mean colonizing Asia ?

I mean Germany. Go and be Napoleon. Just as Bismarck declared Europe to be his Africa, go and make Germany your America. Also Italy, Italy is pretty rich too.

 

[unmerged(780209)]

I mean Germany. Go and be Napoleon. Just as Bismarck declared Europe to be his Africa, go and make Germany your America. Also Italy, Italy is pretty rich too.

There is not ONE way to play this game!

As France, you can make a decision to be a continental power, or a trading and colonization empire. Each is a valid choice (unless you are trying for a WC). Obviously, historically, France made a major effort to colonize and grab valuable colonies, but couldn't hold them against Britain's superior naval power.

If you want to be a trade/colonization power, then you need to do what I suggest, nerf your key colonization and trading rivals, especially Britain, Portugal and Spain.

And the way to do it is to use your formidable military power to attack and crush them, force them to release nations, vassalize said nations, attack them again, force them to release cores to your vassal, etc. It helps if you have useful allies of course, so you're not fighting Spain and Portugal (and maybe Austria) by yourself.

If you could do this within the first 150 years, then there's not really any competition for world domination (except maybe Russia), and you can handle Russia ultimately, if you choose Quantity Ideas for the manpower boost so that they don't have a huge advantage over you there.

 

[justin6477]

There is not ONE way to play this game!

No, but there are a handful of optimal ways to play a given nation. And ways to subvert. For example, the other day I started a Novgorod campaign where I vassalized & diplo-annexed East Frisia... then I moved my capital, culture shifted, and eventually formed the mighty Deutschegorodland. But now I'm getting off-track

Point is that France is not an optimal colonial power, and her powers can be put to better use subjugating Europe.

 

[Cavalry]

Get Trade Idea first, they will get your trade income up about 30%. I think if one don't get Trade Ideas, then one should only invest heavily in trade building and ships starting with the Early Frigate; because only then the trade efficiency go up subtantial. (+20% trade efficiency from trade up to level 9 Dip tech, +10% with Caravel tech level 10, +10% in 4 level 16, 17, 21, 24)

Naval Idea will give your +50% naval force limits and the +2 maneuver admiral that mean +10% trade power for your ships.

 

[unmerged(780209)]

No, but there are a handful of optimal ways to play a given nation. And ways to subvert. For example, the other day I started a Novgorod campaign where I vassalized & diplo-annexed East Frisia... then I moved my capital, culture shifted, and eventually formed the mighty Deutschegorodland. But now I'm getting off-track

Point is that France is not an optimal colonial power, and her powers can be put to better use subjugating Europe.

France is a perfectly good trade power. You just need to use your military power to best advantage by "crushing your trade enemies; driving them before you; hearing the lamentation of their women!" -- Conan the Barbarian.

Is Britain or Spain causing problems? Don't fight them on their terms. Fight them on yours. France has superior generals. They have superior military power (or they should if you're playing right). Playing as Portugal, I scrupulously avoided getting into a war with France for the first 200 years because of this exact reason. I wanted to avoid getting squashed by the blob until I was strong enough to fight them off!

And AI France was a serious colonial power. I had to live with it, because fighting wars with them with their manpower and tactical advantages was simply not an option in the early going.

Well, as France why wait? Beat down Spain and force them to release Aragon. Vassalize Aragon and attack Spain again and force them to release cores to your vassal, etc.

France has got to be the easiest nation to play overall.

You have choices, you don't have to do the obvious boring same old thing every time: beat down Austria and Spain on land, expand and crush the HRE, then face down the Ottomans blah, blah, blah.

Why shouldn't France paint the world map Bleu? Vive le Roi!

 

[unmerged(780209)]

Get Trade Idea first, they will get your trade income up about 30%. I think if one don't get Trade Ideas, then one should only invest heavily in trade building and ships starting with the Early Frigate; because only then the trade efficiency go up subtantial.

Naval Idea will give your +50% naval force limits and the +2 maneuver admiral that mean +10% trade power for your ships.

That's a perfectly good way to go about it of course. That's what I did as Portugal. I didn't want to fight Britain, so I built up my colonial empire and built more ships. A lot more. Exploring gets your naval tradition up to 100% which gives you an advantage in sea battles as well.

So, it's critical to get Exploration Ideas early and set your Explorers to exploring the unknown seas, building up naval tradition so you'll win those naval battles.

But, my point was, as France you don't have to do things the indirect way: Ideas, buildings, colonization, forcelimit expansion, naval tradition. You have superior land force.

Use it to your advantage. Spain won't be such a problem when you've beaten them down a few times! Britain won't be stealing your trade when you force them to release Scotland and Wales and start seizing their home provinces and selling them to your allies!