Trade is painful and bad

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

Nonsense. So it's had 5 patches? so what it's still a mess. EUIV has lots of layers that work together coherently, because it was built that way, and held its player-base because it was designed and built properly.

IR is a mess of because it's being built backwards, was a mess at release now has a tiny base directly because of that.

The two games aren't even comparable. EUIV is one of PDS most succesful games ever, what's IR exactly?

Hahahaha. EU4 is a mess because DLC after DLC locking features. IR doesnt suffee that, and thats why its not a mess. When they want to delete something they go and do it. Or.change it. Theres no junk and clutter over 7 years making any change impossible like in EU4.

I agree that it wouldve been easier for them to launch it as it is now. But in no way its any mess. Or they wouldnt be overhauling the game because there would be DLC feature making it untouchable, which is what other pdx titles suffer

 

[Talib123]

1. Here ( https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...e-imported-trade-route.1411034/#post-26796609 ) is a -already dev-confirmed- report about food imports not having the intended effect until a 2nd copy is purchases - IMO, that does probably currently create a bigger-than-intended food scarceness for everyone. So the human player has to import more than intended from an AI needing their surplusses themself...

That might very well be a great factor. I did not notice that and have to check if this is happening.

2. The reported amount of civil wars among the AIs seems high. Likely this has more than one root cause (AE-stability connection? loyalty managment in republics? Going overboard with Integration), but for sure it destabilizes trade.

Yes! The amount of civil wars is quite high. In my campaign I got a civil war warning like every year or so.

3. Speaking of integration - if the AI overdoes that currently, not only happiness will suffer, but likely also quite a few slaves get "promoted away"

Yep thought about that too and I think thats what I saw a lot happening in my example.

 

[Akbar The Great]

This thread was not intended to bash on IR. I like this game very much and as I said I did support it since release and will continue so.
All I was concerned about is the fact that there might be a incoherent trade mechanic, wich technically works, but gameplay wise drove me to the brink of insanity.

Ok, I didn't intend that either and I can see people have gotten defensive over a game they clearly love, I like it, I'm just hugely disapointed about what might have been.
But, to contend that EUIV and IR are comparable really isn't accurate.

Back on topic i'm extremely annoyed that everyone's suggestions for automation and customization of trades have been ignored, as they were so obviously a pre-requisite for this system to work.

 

[Talib123]

But, to contend that EUIV and IR are comparable really isn't accurate.

Back on topic i'm extremely annoyed that everyone's suggestions for automation and customization of trades have been ignored, as they were so obviously a pre-requisite for this system to work.

I dont know. Maybe they thought about it too and find it to be difficult to implement. After all they have a more complete picture of what is possible.
On the other hand I, as a player, die every time I have to redo a trade route for the 100th time

 

[Talib123]

I've noticed civil wars canceling some of my trade routes, but that can't account for everything you're seeing.

I wonder if it's a something like: AI oks export of goods, notices drop in pop happiness, doesn't like that, cancels the route, notices pop happiness is ok now, oks export of goods, repeat.

That sounds reasonable aswell. But I really dont know if this is the case though

 

[Harlehus]

But, to contend that EUIV and IR are comparable really isn't accurate.

Of course they are comparable. They are both GS-games made by the same developer. If I am to be fair I think you meant that they are not comparable in terms of quality and content, but again this a subjective point and so it not being accurate is of course nonsensical since a matter of opinion cannot be more or less accurate or correct.
Besides, there is a difference in comparing trade systems and comparing games.

That being said i agree fully that the current way that the import system of trade works with all its cancelations is undesirable.

 

[Talib123]

In the sub forum is a thread concerning exactly what I hope to see in the future. Vote for it if you like it!

 

[Akbar The Great]

Hahahaha. EU4 is a mess because DLC after DLC locking features. IR doesnt suffee that, and thats why its not a mess. When they want to delete something they go and do it. Or.change it. Theres no junk and clutter over 7 years making any change impossible like in EU4.

I agree that it wouldve been easier for them to launch it as it is now. But in no way its any mess. Or they wouldnt be overhauling the game because there would be DLC feature making it untouchable, which is what other pdx titles suffer

EUIV wasn't a mess at all, right up until the Emporer DLC, and having lousy releases is statndard practice for PDS these days. The game played perfectly prior to Emperor.

What do you mean "making any change impossible" in EUIV? - It's been changing and evolving since release!!!

 

[sr999]

...
On top of tools they'd have to teach the AI to make it work too, and that's a bridge too far for PDS these days.
...

Indeed. IMV PDS is caught between a rock and a hard place. Money spent on improving AI may be a bad investment. Because any such investment might be largely wasted, or at least degraded, as soon as they add new features and mechanics. And continuous interative mechanics/feature enhancement (some people would call it "creep") seems to be PDS' business/development model - as it is for a number of companies, though perhaps more typically found in the free-to-play or MMO-whatever ones.

On top of that, trying to get a generic AI that will function reasonably under all or even "common" DLC combinations might be a real headache, perhaps conceptually more severe than the wheat and chessboard problem.

For avoidance of doubt I don't object to that model (or to DLCs) at all: I just point out some AI consequences .