Trade Centers

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Playing EU2 scenarios recently, I noticed from time era to time era trading centers moved. For example, in some of the earlier scenarios theres a trading center in antwerp, in later on its gone ( presumebly due to the low countries trade being shifted from Antwerp to Amsterdam)

Some of these changes may be "gamey" so to speak but which areas of th world were at times bustling trading centers and later declined?

was the city of Vienna ever an important trading area on the Danube, and did Venice ever lose its importance as a trade area?

*I know the concept of a 'trade center' may be a bit EU2ish, but wasn't there certain cities or provinces in europe that many trade routes led to and prospered because of this?

 

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The switch from Antwerp to Amsterdam is real..when the "rich" people moved from the south to the north, sot did the "rich" trade..so it´s not ficticious at all

 

[Vandelay]

Antwerp was also subjected to a veeery (decades) long blockade during the war between Spain and the Netherlands.

Venice went into a decline from the 1600´s as did Alexandria, Aleppo and Constantinople declined as Dutch and English traders took over the Indian Ocean (Portugues control wasn´t as thorough so Venice managed the 1500´s).

Genoa went from trade center to banking center and the once huge Champagne fairs declined during the late medieval period.

Yes, trade centers shifted but some places are very much favoured by geography being situated at "choke-points" - the Malacca and Gibraltar straits, the Bosphoros etc.

I think one shift that did occur during the EU2 period is a shift from trading centers to financial centers: securities, banking and the first stock markets; London and Antwerp; from the Mediterranean to the North Sea.

Sorry for this rambling post...

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

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It was a good post!

So, once the English and Dutch took control of the Indian sea trade Venice declined?

And Genoa switched from a trading to a banking place. hmm

how about Lisbon and Seville?

 

[Faeelin]

Venice was important into the 19th century, and arguably beyond. According to norwich, it was the center for shipment of products from the entire adriatic and levant; but by this point, the spice didn't flow, and it was a poorer COT.

 

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Originally posted by Faeelin
Venice was important into the 19th century, and arguably beyond. According to norwich, it was the center for shipment of products from the entire adriatic and levant; but by this point, the spice didn't flow, and it was a poorer COT.

Venice was already in decadence in the XVIII century, and it lost all its importance after the annexion by Austria. In fact the Austrian empire used Trieste as most important port and trade center.

 

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too bad in EU2 trade centers don't ever move or disapear...

 

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Wido
Venice was already in decadence in the XVIII century, and it lost all its importance after the annexion by Austria. In fact the Austrian empire used Trieste as most important port and trade center.

Decadence does not equal loss of trade.

"Venice now dealt mainly in domestic, or at least Adriatic, commodities-wine, olive oil, sulfur, salt, raisins and currants from the Ionian Islands. But the money flowed in; in 1782 it was found necessary to broaden the Riva eastward to allow more space for the unloading of merchanidise... "it seems likely that the total tonnage moving through the port of Venice was larger in 1783... than ever before in the house years of the city's history"-Norwich's History of Venice.

 

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Originally posted by CoolElephant
too bad in EU2 trade centers don't ever move or disapear...

They can, but only by event. It would be kinda cool if CoTs moved to better areas if the trade in the region declined.

But trade never really declines. while tax incomes go up and down, trade venues shift only with demand..so unless the portuguese/dutch etc colonization of spice provinces really shoots the supply sky high spices and such should always be valuable

 

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Originally posted by Jaron
how about Lisbon and Seville?

From what I've learned while at school, neither Lisbon, neither Seville were majors center of trade. Most of the Portuguese colonial trade went directly from Lisbon to Antwerp where it was mainly traded. Portugal had a "feitoria" there (wich I believe could be translated as a permanent King representative for trade aspects). If you want a date for the first decay of the Lisbon CoT it would be about 1580, when it was the "iberian union", under Philip II (I of Portugal). If you want I can search for a little bit more info, though...

 

[Kasperus]

Sevilla was an important trading city however in the muslim period - probably one of the most important in the western mediterranean (we`re talking about 12th, 13th century). In the Spanish period I seem to recall that it was for some time the most important colonial trade-center as well till (for some reason I cannot recall now) the colonial administration (or such) moved to Madrit sometime in the 16th century which caused a fast decline of Sevilla.
But well, in general the whole idea of cot`s as in eu is a bit weird. Though there was of course at a certain moment a lot of international trade it is quite unrealistic that so many countries (or rather territories as countries are often enough split between more than one tradecenter in eu) traded in 1 cot only. Normally most cities were tradingplaces - the more they laid on the traderoutes the more scope they had. The few examples of great tradecenters are the centra in the lowlands (Brugge, Antwerp, Amsterdam... but there were more cities here which were very important for trade - Dordrecht, Kampen, Zwolle...) and maybe the monopolistic centra in some countries (Danzig controlled quite the whole Polish trade with the west and so did Novgorod for some time with Russian trade) though that was often inherent to the fact that such countries did not have many cities of importance and a developed merchant class.

 

[Dakar]

Sevilla was the main trading center with America during the XV-XVI-XVII century, in the XVIII century the center was moved to Cádiz due to the better conditions of that harbour.

 

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Dakar
Sevilla was the main trading center with America during the XV-XVI-XVII century, in the XVIII century the center was moved to Cádiz due to the better conditions of that harbour.

Isn't Cadiz in the seville province in EU anyway?

 

[Dakar]

Yes, but they should be in different provinces. Sevilla is on the banks of the Guadalquivir river more than 100 miles inland wheras Cadiz (oldest city in Europe btw, founded by the fenicians) is on the seashore.

 

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@Kasperus

The reason was Karl V and his decision about setting a capital for the empire. He chose unknown place called Madrid located in the center of the country.

 

[Arilou]

Wasn't that Filip II that made Madrid Capital?

 

[Syt]

Brugge was also a bustling trading town once, esp. in 14th century, and an important member of the Hansa.

However, for whatever reason, they let their access to the North Sea (a canal or small river) mud up so that larger ships couldn't reach the port, leading to a decline during the 15th through 17th century.

 

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Originally posted by Arilou
Wasn't that Filip II that made Madrid Capital?

Yes indeed, Philip II moved the capital to Madrid (1562 I think.)

 

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Originally posted by Habsburg
Yes indeed, Philip II moved the capital to Madrid (1562 I think.)

That's right but Karl V started the whole matter. Phillipe being "a spider in the web" preffered one location, thus ordered Escurial as his new house .

 

[Dakar]

Carlos V didn´t do anything about Madrid, in his time the capital was Toledo. Madrid was made capital in 1561 by Felipe II (btw the Escorial was built later) mainly due to its strategic location in the center of the Iberian peninsula and the good quality of the hunting nearby.
The capital was moved north to Valladolid in 1609 by Felipe III, it was returned to Madrid definitively in 1615 (IIRC).