Toxoids should get access to Plantoid traits

[Lorenerd11]

I've recently changed one of my empires' Fungoid portrait to the Toxoid "Frogboy" portrait, but then I noticed I lost access to the Plantoid traits that I had as a Fungoid.

I thing Toxoids should also gain access to Budding, Photothrophic, and Radiothropic traits.

 

[Navar]

Might as well unlock all the species specific traits for all portraits at that point. Would remove uniqueness, but would expand options.

Would also be weird.

 

[Thiend]

Might as well unlock all the species specific traits for all portraits at that point. Would remove uniqueness, but would expand options.

Would also be weird.

Absolutely bizarre, but necessary in my opinion. The plantoid-unique traits (and toxoid, and lithoid) are a major power gain for using a specific portrait, and I hate that I'm given an incentive to use a specific portrait when I want, as an example, radiotrophic together with relentless industrialists. Either that or give them all unique traits, but if you go for biological ascension you gain the ability to apply them to whatever you want, which seems like a reasonable compromise considering at that level you can also modify something so much it becomes part of a hive mind.

 

[Pancakelord]

I like the traits locked to locked portraits, finding random ones on AIs, I kind of feel like would be jarring.

Though there are not enough portrait-locked traits to really do it yet, but there ought to be

1. an option in empire creation "respect/ignore trait-phenotype requirements"
2. A galaxy generation option "forbid/permit empires ignoring trait-phenotype requirements (ai+human/human permitted only)"

Invalid empires, even forced on, wouldn't spawn, humans in mp would be forced to edit their empire or start without the invalid traits if violating the rule.

It would probably be a bit of a pig to code, but that would allow you to have the best of both worlds, I think. And makes the system totally scalable into the future. We can get more flavourful phenotype-locked traits, and those that want them can void the locking system. And we need more galaxy customisation options tbh.

 

[mammonmachine]

Absolutely bizarre, but necessary in my opinion. The plantoid-unique traits (and toxoid, and lithoid) are a major power gain for using a specific portrait, and I hate that I'm given an incentive to use a specific portrait when I want, as an example, radiotrophic together with relentless industrialists. Either that or give them all unique traits, but if you go for biological ascension you gain the ability to apply them to whatever you want, which seems like a reasonable compromise considering at that level you can also modify something so much it becomes part of a hive mind.

You could do something really simple, like created a warm blooded and cold blooded traits that would then cover Mammalians, Avians and possibly Humanoids (warm) on the one hand, and Reptilians, Arthropods and Molluscs (cold) on the other. Warm could be greater food consumption, small habitability bonus, Cold lower food consumption, small habitability penalty.

I like the traits locked to locked portraits, finding random ones on AIs, I kind of feel like would be jarring.

Though there are not enough portrait-locked traits to really do it yet, but there ought to

1. be an option in empire creation "respect/ignore trait-phenotype requirements"
2. A galaxy generation option "forbid/permit empires ignoring trait-phenotype requirements (ai+human/human permitted only)"

Invalid empires, even forced on, wouldn't spawn, humans in mp would be forced to edit their empire or start without the invalid traits if violating the rule.

It would probably be a bit of a pig to code, but that would allow you to have the best of both worlds, I think. And makes the system totally scalable into the future. We can get more flavourful phenotype-locked traits, and those that want them can void the locking system. And we need more galaxy customisation options tbh.

This seems like the ideal way forward, if Paradox had the resources to implement it. I do agree that I would really dislike it if AI generated empires completely ignore portrait--trait connections.

 

[GhostDanny]

Yeah, I'm very against portrait locked species traits.
Who are we to say what any kind of very alien species with a certain trait looks like?

 

[TrotBot]

I like the traits locked to locked portraits, finding random ones on AIs, I kind of feel like would be jarring.

Could just have hidden requirements for AI and make THEM respect them, while not locking the player.

Yeah, I'm very against portrait locked species traits.
Who are we to say what any kind of very alien species with a certain trait looks like?

Yeah, I like the idea of plantoids that emulate humanoids. Or the idea of a machine empire that has the appearance of a biological. Or crystalline plantoids.

 

[Pancakelord]

Could just have hidden requirements for AI and make THEM respect them, while not locking the player.

That would work too, for single player, though I'm not sure if that can be done without some re-engineering of how the game works.

I have seen in a few comments in the game files that the "initial loading screen/galaxy generation bit" doesn't have a scope and certain checks can't run (basically) because the AI hasn't been 'created' yet, to be checked against.

For context, a similar argument was given by the Devs for the cut escaped slaves origin, basically the player empire was made at T, and it wasn't possible to immediately spawn you with other galactic pops because other empires are created sequentially after in code (t+n) - though workarounds exist for that specific problem (e.g. have escaped slaves of other species exist in planet blockers generated at-game start, via on actions, after the loading screen goes away).

 

[NotAYakk]

Locked traits are bundles. We probably don't want to break those bundles.

Instead, we can have Species Type that is independent of portrait: Plantoid, Lithoid, Machine, Robot, etc. And get the randomly generated AI empires to never use a different species than portrait type.

 

[GOLANX]

I like phenotype traits, its pretty cool and I wish there were more, just get a mod that unlocks them and it should be fine. also fix it so that modders can add portraits to existing phenotype categories.

 

[GhostDanny]

I like phenotype traits, its pretty cool and I wish there were more, just get a mod that unlocks them and it should be fine. also fix it so that modders can add portraits to existing phenotype categories.

Though such a mod would disable achievements.
Perhaps an ingame option?

 

[Archael90]

recently changed one of my empires' Fungoid portrait to the Toxoid "Frogboy" portrait, but then I noticed I lost access to the Plantoid traits that I had as a Fungoid.

I thing Toxoids should also gain access to Budding, Photothrophic, and Radiothropic traits.

No. Not really. Plants should get plantoid traits, not everyone.
Here is better idea:

Species pack sorting idea

I mean... okay, those are paid DLCs and deserves being whole separated group... i understand that. But please, try to understand a confusion here. We have mulluscoid group where we have mulluscoids... and necroids, where slugs also exists... We...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

This way plants from species packs would be treated as plants.

 

[GOLANX]

Though such a mod would disable achievements.
Perhaps an ingame option?

personally cosmetics mods shouldn't disable achievements. if you want to copy a toxoid portrait and stick it in plantoids for 1 run that shouldn't count against you. heck if you wanna add Furries, Anmie girls, or Star Destroyers to your game it shouldn't count against you
Second Achievements aren't critical, if you really want the achievement then you will make the sacrifice, if the achievements aren't as valuable to you as the RP then your going for the mod.

 

[Doldenberg]

Wholeheartedly agree with just unlocking all (Budding/Crystallization can stay as variations for flavour).
It's already done for Aquatics, so I see no good reason not to extend it to all. A setting to disable it for those who do not want it would be a nice bonus, but I think the fun lost from being forced to play with a certain portrait is larger than the fun lost from someone finding a species with a trait they consider inappropriate.

 

[mammonmachine]

I have seen in a few comments in the game files that the "initial loading screen/galaxy generation bit" doesn't have a scope and certain checks can't run (basically) because the AI hasn't been 'created' yet, to be checked against.

I'm not sure I entirely understand. I think Trotbot's suggestion wouldn't change empire AI generation, it would just add an exception for empires made by the player so they can ignore trait-portrait links? Or maybe things are written so it is not possibly to implement a 'one rule for them, another for us' approach?

 

[Lorenerd11]

Not gonna lie, I wasn't expecting this intense a discussion.

I just felt it was weird I'm not able to change the portrait from Fungoid to this one without giving up on Radiotrophic or Budding traits

 

[NotAYakk]

Not gonna lie, I wasn't expecting this intense a discussion.

View attachment 883016

I just felt it was weird I'm not able to change the portrait from Fungoid to this one without giving up on Radiotrophic or Budding traits

You can create a custom plant portrait with the above copied.

If you share it, ensure it requires both DLC.

 

[Lorenerd11]

You can create a custom plant portrait with the above copied.

If you share it, ensure it requires both DLC.

I'm obviously making this suggestion because I want to use this portrait with Plantoid traits without using mods.