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Taking its place would be considered claiming that kigdom of Spain. If u do yu don't have to unite with the other but if u want Spain's place u have to claim it. Not doing so is choosing an alternative route.
So I understand that there is an alternative way to create Spain, apart from the "Iberian marriage", even if you don't own the other partner? And if it so, does it apply only to Castilla or also other Iberian powers? Thanks BiB.
The problem is that it is possible to remove the treaty, but not change the two nations...
What are the conditions of the Birth of Spain event? I.e., can Aragon claim being Spain without having absorbed Castile, as I would like to play past 1500 and still have leaders.
Argon basically need to take Castille to become Spain.
The difference is 1%
For the question: If Spain does not form the leaders will not appear.
And yes, BiB -- since some of us aren't beta testers, or haven't been on these boards very long, we may not always have your perfect understanding of the situation.
As for leaders of a nation only going to that nation -- I've never heard that in the context of Castilla vs. Spain until now. Granted I don't read every single post on the board... too hard to do.
Each nation have a leader file. The leader files for Castilla/Aragon are not very stashed with leaders...
That's one of the things that I fear of the new events engine, otherwise the most glowing EU2 feature in my eyes: if you depart from the historical path you will either
a) Gently be brought back to the right path (War of the Roses)
b) Face a dull future of no-events, no-leaders for your country (Castilla/Aragó)
a) Gently be brought back to the right path (War of the Roses)
b) Face a dull future of no-events, no-leaders for your country (Castilla/Aragó)
It's easy, but a bit complicated
1. you must create a leader in all countries he might appear, with separate ids. The leader is considersed "sleeping"
2. You need events in the country that will get him to wake the leader (and in each country that might get him if the trigger are correct).
All you need to do is to check so that the leader does not appear for more than one country...
That sounds like a job for the IGC2 team... come up with "what-if" events for Castille and Aragon post-1500.
The departures from the historic path can be temporary (as for the English monarch list after the war of the roses) or more permanent (as for NOT claiming Spain/Russia). The problem with the ones that are permanent is that there is no historic knowledge of what might have happened IF they had not eveolved. Du we know if Castille would have been acting the same way had it not teamed up with Aragon to form Spain? Would Muscovy have followed the russian path (and gotten their leaders) if they hadn't eveolved into Russia?
It is eay to do, but need coordination (like the IGC) to be usable in the player community.
Duplicating leaders among Castille, Aragon and anybody else would be a nightmare. Not only does it take a lot of coding, but the testing would be ferocious.
Short term solution would be to split them evenly among the two states.
Long term would require the event engine to allow leaders to be created by an event, without being contained in leader files.
Q. Do the same leader files get used for every scenario?
Short term solution would be to split them evenly among the two states.
Long term would require the event engine to allow leaders to be created by an event, without being contained in leader files.
Q. Do the same leader files get used for every scenario?
Then what would happend when Spain forms? Double set of some leders?
This is the only solution, I think, but it involves alot of work to make sure it works ok...
AFAIK yes.
Well don't castille and Aragon disasppear when Spain forms, or is it possible for one to still exist? If yes, then set all the Spanish leaders to sleep, and wake them after a logical check.
It should not be that hard to do. On game initialization the leader files are read and a leader object created for each one, all that needs to be done, is to allow the parser to recognize a new command, and then invoke the create leader code. A check to create and on the fly leader id and presto! instant leaders.
So this means that creating a different set of leaders for a particular scenario requires a seperate installation of the game? That instantly destroys the chances of creating specialized what-ifs, as changes in the leader files would be reflected regardless of scenario.
Well, you make it sound simple
It can be done (but as far as I know it has only been done with Monarchs). Ponder on this - if Paradox get a huge amount of flak when they create historical events and leaders, imagine the firestorm of complaints that would follow any hypothetical what if events. At the moment the what-ifs tend to be minor detours to history rather than world shattering changes. That is left to the player!
Yes, of course we can't get "pure fantasy" events/leaders, but we can more or less assume the game premise and keep some historical flavour assigning the Russian leaders between their originary countries (although I am conscious about the duplicity danger, although I think that the existence of Russia precludes the one of subsidiary states, bar revolts). For events, I think we can come with some "logical" events. Events that are not based in any concrete historical event (because there will not be hostory to be based one), but that are foreseeable. For example, for Aragon, just from the top of my head:
a) Stirring between Catalan nobles against the dominant Castillian dinasty of the Trastamaras (this happened also after Spain was formed). This can be a chain of events that leads you to the keeping of the Castillian dinasty or the overthrowing of it and replacement with a Catalan one, with diverse effects (like having problems with Aragon, which was of Castillian culture and halbered the imposition of the Trastámara dinasty)
b) Reivindication of Provence, so its culture can be added to the ones of Aragon if Provence is conquered (with a GREAT stab in the relations with France). Although I fear that Paradox has put a "Frenchie" culture status for Provence
c) Aragon was a more or less parlamentary regime, and the king often had problems getting funds from the "Council of the Hundred", so you can model events dealing with this problems, setting off during wars, times of low stab or raising of war taxes.
d) Dynastic ties with Navarra, that can also lead to some events to get them recognized, with the consequential stab of relations with Castilla. Or let them go.
Even some "generic" events, like having an economic/military reforms under specially capable monarchs. And counterreforms with uncapable ones. Possible peasant uprests if you get to the XIX century with serfdom still implemented, chance of colonial independence if Aragon becomes a colonial power and the US forms,
I am sure that we can come with this kind of events which are not attached to any specific historical event in particular, but can be more or less "foreseable" after observation of the common history of other nations and the aspirations and characteristics of the nation itself. Of course I know purists will oppose this, but they should also oppose the whole event system engine this way.
Where on earth is this duplication idea coming from, unless Castile or Aragon have a strong tendency to survive after the "create Spain" event (which would render the "create Spain" event rather pointless!) Some members of the Spanish leader list are from Castile, some from the areas of the Crown of Aragon-so when splitting them by nation, where does the duplication come in?
Castile and Aragon should have appropriate leader lists, since the unification into "Spain" was far from certain-dynastic unions like that had a habit of breaking down in Europe, as previous Iberian history also shows.
It is perfectly possible to have Aragon around, alive and kicking, after Castille become Spain.
If you have all the alternative leaders in the files for the countries in question, you can wake them with events. This would give events for each leader, in each country he might occur in.
As mentioned you can put in additional leaders as "sleepers". They a waken by events and will otherwise not come to action.
Originally posted by Agelastus
Where on earth is this duplication idea coming from, unless Castile or Aragon have a strong tendency to survive after the "create Spain" event (which would render the "create Spain" event rather pointless!) Some members of the Spanish leader list are from Castile, some from the areas of the Crown of Aragon-so when splitting them by nation, where does the duplication come in?
Castile and Aragon should have appropriate leader lists, since the unification into "Spain" was far from certain-dynastic unions like that had a habit of breaking down in Europe, as previous Iberian history also shows.
The duplication idea come from knowledge of how the event system works, and how leader changes can be implemented.
As mentioned in my previous post, there is a large chance of seeing Aragon after the formation of Spain. I have said over and over that it is not impossible to make the leaders appear for different countries according to if the countries exist or not, BUT it involves a lot of work since all leaders must be put in al the countries files, they all need events to wake them, testing and so so...
Originally posted by Agelastus
Where on earth is this duplication idea coming from, unless Castile or Aragon have a strong tendency to survive after the "create Spain" event (which would render the "create Spain" event rather pointless!) Some members of the Spanish leader list are from Castile, some from the areas of the Crown of Aragon-so when splitting them by nation, where does the duplication come in?
Castile and Aragon should have appropriate leader lists, since the unification into "Spain" was far from certain-dynastic unions like that had a habit of breaking down in Europe, as previous Iberian history also shows.
Well, the problem is that the starting point may not be the same in all cases. Lets say that Castille has fought several wars aginast Portugal, Navarre and Aragon prior to the "Create Spain" event. These three countries are reduced to 1-2 provinces each. Wouldn't Castille take on the mantle of Spain anyway, irrespective of the status of the other "minors". Likewise if Aragon followed the same policy and won militarily would they not also claim Hedgemony in the Iberian peninsula.
The Create Spain event is by necessity a bit of a fudge (although if you can improve on the logic I'm sure Doomdark would be interested.
The same factor affects you ideas on the leader list. If Castille occupies most of Aragon's territories shouldn't they get most of Aragon's leaders?
If we totally change the leader concept in the game and link leaders to provinces then we will get the "War of Napoleon" or the "War of Wellington" when players will try to occupy Corsica or Meath(I think) to acquire the leader for their armies!
It's a tough one to call and you will get ahistorical results whichever way its coded.
I do agree that some linkage of future leaders to the major amalgamation events (or not) would be good. I would really like to see a series of events happening when Colombus tries to sell his idea of the New World around. Maybe Genoa gets a chance to acquire Colombus first if it can afford the cost of the expedition?