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I managed.

But regardless, improving the interface is ever a good thing, and I am quite glad that Paradox does not lose sight of it in lieu of other projects. Three cheers for the continued work on EU3!

Hip hip!

Sure, some people manage. But a better interface or knowing where to look would have made my CK experience a lot better (and I still love that game, mostly due to setting). However, there are a lot of persons who won't manage who would have with a better interface.
 

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What Checco said about chess is right on point.

You take out the assurances and you introduce gambling to the aspect.

Gambling and strategy aren't good bedfellows.
 

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I am not talking about the tooltips in general. I can't think of anyone, save einstein, who could master this game without any info.

But i can't really believe somebody actually calculated the compete chances of every CoT each time he got a merchant. I just targeted Eastern CoTs where the traders were less advanced than mine. BUT after i checked the CoT screen and saw if there were any western competitors there. I would then hover my mouse over some of the traders and ESTIMATED if it worthed the trouble.
Same thing for the battles; I couldn't understand why were my armies suffering a lot of casualties at the hands of the AI untill i realized the new combined arms concept. I thereafter took great care not to let the cav/inf ratio exceed 50%. Now the army not gaining the bonus simply flashes red. Everybody without achromatopsia can immedietaly realize there is a lack of infantry in the army.
etc etc.

For my definition of skill; Memory, experience, natural ability. All atribute to proper ESTIMATIONS in all situations-be it from what CoTs are cost effective, the chance to suceed in diplomacy,and the proper management of armies to the possibility of a sucessfull conclusion to war. But because these are HUMAN ESTIMATIONS the above mentioned definition of skill plays its role to winning a game. Now the way things are going i will just click everywhere green and avoid red.

But how are you even supposed to know there is such a penalty in the first place? The game doesn't tell you anywhere, and poor performance by your military could be chalked up to any number of other factors. There is absolutely no reason NOT to tell players this information.
 

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No one said 'hooray'. I hate you all.

Sure, some people manage. But a better interface or knowing where to look would have made my CK experience a lot better (and I still love that game, mostly due to setting). However, there are a lot of persons who won't manage who would have with a better interface.

Eh? I'm by no means arguing that the interface was fine, I'm just saying you can manage through it. There's absolutely no argument to be made that the interface shouldn't be upgraded, it's just a matter of priority. No?
 

El Dingo Grande

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There's actually people who find it *FUN* to move your mouse to a tooltip every time you select an army, and then compare two values?

I personally do not find that fun, especially not in a competetive game where you want to rely on tactics instead of twitch memory and fast-click skills.

I'm with Johan, these changes are great and I can't believe theres actually "QQ no welfare epix; games too easy now" on this game's forums too. These changes are great for people that have never played the game before as this game is-was pretty user unfriendly.
 

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I'm with Johan, these changes are great and I can't believe theres actually "QQ no welfare epix; games too easy now" on this game's forums too. These changes are great for people that have never played the game before as this game is-was pretty user unfriendly.

LOL @ welfare epics.

WoW and it's universe of cheap knock-offs are populism at it's worst.
 

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Information is key in making decisions.

There are two ways to acquire information.

1. Finding out by trial and error, with a high chance of never realising what actually was going on because all things hidden... are hidden till they happen and even then muddled in the overflow of information.

For example, national decisions. If you've never been in the situation where something happened or became available as a choice - and if it does, can't relate it to a particular stat - there is no way to work towards that goal aside from pure luck and luck is bad if it is essential to working out what to do next.

2. By being fed basic information. This is absolutely essential in decision making, because you simply do not have the luxury - or should have the need - to go through the Wiki and find what someone else found out regarding province wealth has on the tech influence. You can only base decisions on what information you have readily available.

It's great that someone went and got the math, found out when what event will be triggered and how to set himself up for the most positive way imaginable. But is using that information any more skill than being told by the game or is that gamey exploiting? Understanding game mechanics is important sure, but that shouldn't mean you have to know the entire code!



One has to keep in mind it IS in fact, still a game, which means everyone should be able to compete fairly. Whether they 'cheat' by knowing how to exploit the code (by trial and error or from other players) or by being given the information by the game shouldn't matter.

It's about what they do with the information, as skill will show through in the decisions made with the information all players receive and the ability to get out of tricky situations by effective use of whatever resources are available to you.
 

l3illyl3ob

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EU3 is a strategy game, and strategy games are about decision making, not statistical analysis. Anything that allows the player to make more informed decisions is a very positive change. The game doesn't automate it. They don't automatically move your armies out of high attrition provinces, it just tells you that you're bleeding manpower. That's a very easy thing to miss in a game of such big scale, and a very useful bit of information.

All these bits of information the game gives you add to the decision making process and improve the stategical experience overall, not detract from it like some of you suggest. When players are unimformed, they're afraid to make risky moves, and their strategy becomes less advanced and the game ends up less fun. After a couple patches, Civilization 4 gave you the exact odds to win every single battle. This did not remove any strategy or make the game less fun, but instead added to it, and allowed you to make more informed decisions about where to attack and what to attack with. This can't be added to EU3 due to how the combat works, and I'm not asking it to be added, but it's a perfect example of how presenting information to the player is a very good thing.

Basically, strategy games do nothing but benefit from being as transparent as possible, and I applaud Paradox for going this route. These new interface improvements help greatly in keeping the player well informed of what's going on in a very big world, and doesn't detract from the gameplay experience at all.
 

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Disagree STRONGLY. Only real point in hiding game mechanics from the player is to give a bigger edge to veterans. Veterans already have all the breaks - why make it harder for novices to scale the ladder? Really bad, bad direction.
 

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I never had, or never will have any urge to play this game MP anyway, I just like having the information accessible in a form that speeds up my games.
 

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I can't believe someone would actually complain about this. If you don't like seeing the information, don't read it. The more tool tips to explain how the game works the better and I'm sure the vast majority of players agree with this.
 

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No surrender to these anal micro managing types. A strategy game should be about prioritising and strategising rather than a rewarding the player with the worst obsessive compulsive disorder.
 

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I never had, or never will have any urge to play this game MP anyway, I just like having the information accessible in a form that speeds up my games.

This is a little off topic, but I heartily recommend playing EU3 in multiplayer, it's very fun. I play it quite frequently with a group of friends (all of who I know in real life) and my brother and it's a blast.

As for the thread topic, I agree with those saying the more information the better. I love the interface changes that have been made with the latest beta patch.
 

WaltherModel

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Now the chance of compete in each CoT is shown, cavalry turns red if it exceeds the "combine arms" desirable ratio, the number of regiments is shown when selecting an army(top of the pop up screen) etc.
In my old fashioned view of video games this sort of deductions should be made by the player, not the game machine. So its up to the player to discern if his cavalry has exceeded the ratio, the chance of suceeding in a Cot(by seeing which countries compete there f.e) if an assault suceeds and so on.
Whats next? A percentage chance of winning a battle?

I believe as things go the game becomes too "automatic", too "unrealistic", too "easy".

I think one point that maybe people are not seeing is that Palaiologos is pointing out the "slippery slope." I know for one, I would not enjoy a seeing a
a percentage chance of winning a battle - because then, by seeing that percent, it would/could affect the way that some play the game..."well know that I know I have a 60% to loose, I won't risk this attack." I like how the dice works - sometimes you win, sometimes you loose (if all else is equal). I think by putting ourselves in the position of our countries leader in EU3, and while I know this isn't HO3 where there is a big debate about historical viewpoint, the leaders didn't know the percent of all these things...so I guess what I am saying is we should be careful to leave some things up to more of our "gut feeling" plus a little chance, an educated guess versus a pre-calcuated fact. I think Palaiologos is right that if we let the interface do all our legwork then it takes away a bit from our own input.
 

l3illyl3ob

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There is no slippery slope. First of all, due to how combat works, it would be very hard to get accurate combat odds. Second of all, these are humans making intentional design decisions, not soulless machines or anything.

Are you suggesting that Paradox shouldn't seek out to make the best interface possible just because they might get it in their head to make bad unrelated design decisions? I'm really failing to understand your point of view.