Too much?

[Palaiologos]

I know that i am speaking against the majority here, but the latest beta patch has brought to surface an undesireable tendency of the dev team;
They are constantly adding interface additions that make the game user friendly-too user friendly.
Now the chance of compete in each CoT is shown, cavalry turns red if it exceeds the "combine arms" desirable ratio, the number of regiments is shown when selecting an army(top of the pop up screen) etc.
In my old fashioned view of video games this sort of deductions should be made by the player, not the game machine. So its up to the player to discern if his cavalry has exceeded the ratio, the chance of suceeding in a Cot(by seeing which countries compete there f.e) if an assault suceeds and so on.
Whats next? A percentage chance of winning a battle?

I believe as things go the game becomes too "automatic", too "unrealistic", too "easy".


I know that most people aren't as acquainted with the game as me and paradox is trying to adress that, but it just seems too much.


P.S Maybe a veteran/novice player option?

 

[tuore]

I know that i am speaking against the majority here, but the latest beta patch has brought to surface an undesireable tendency of the dev team;
They are constantly adding interface additions that make the game user friendly-too user friendly.
Now the chance of compete in each CoT is shown, cavalry turns red if it exceeds the "combine arms" desirable ratio, the number of regiments is shown when selecting an army(top of the pop up screen) etc.
In my old fashioned view of video games this sort of deductions should be made by the player, not the game machine. So its up to the player to discern if his cavalry has exceeded the ratio, the chance of suceeding in a Cot(by seeing which countries compete there f.e) if an assault suceeds and so on.
Whats next? A percentage chance of winning a battle?

I believe as things go the game becomes too "automatic", too "unrealistic", too "easy".


I know that most people aren't as acquainted with the game as me and paradox is trying to adress that, but it just seems too much.


P.S Maybe a veteran/novice player option?

I kind of agree.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

There's actually people who find it *FUN* to move your mouse to a tooltip every time you select an army, and then compare two values?

I personally do not find that fun, especially not in a competetive game where you want to rely on tactics instead of twitch memory and fast-click skills.

 

[Epoe Nimistedt]

Now the chance of compete in each CoT is shown, cavalry turns red if it exceeds the "combine arms" desirable ratio, the number of regiments is shown when selecting an army(top of the pop up screen) etc.
In my old fashioned view of video games this sort of deductions should be made by the player, not the game machine. So its up to the player to discern if his cavalry has exceeded the ratio, the chance of suceeding in a Cot(by seeing which countries compete there f.e) if an assault suceeds and so on.
Whats next? A percentage chance of winning a battle?

I subscribe your observations, and I support your suggestion for veteran/novice interface option too.

 

[I am.]

There's actually people who find it *FUN* to move your mouse to a tooltip every time you select an army, and then compare two values?

I personally do not find that fun, especially not in a competetive game where you want to rely on tactics instead of twitch memory and fast-click skills.

I agree with the way it is atm, so against the thread creator
I do not fear new players in an MP game

 

[Beamed]

There's actually people who find it *FUN* to move your mouse to a tooltip every time you select an army, and then compare two values?

I personally do not find that fun, especially not in a competetive game where you want to rely on tactics instead of twitch memory and fast-click skills.

+1.

I write +1 because I know it bugs him and thus supporting him with something annoying should emotionally conflict him.

 

[Grubnessul]

I prefer to play my games without having to have a calculator next to me.

 

[safferli]

Anything that helps with the interface is good. Anything. Why would I want to hover over a unit, check two values, remember and calculate if their are "correct", if this little red popup does all of that for me, for free?

EU3 is about playing the game, it's a strategy game. You're not supposed to keep track of all these little things, you're supposed to apply them. Anything that helps me apply the game mechanics is a good thing. So I applaud any interface improvements, I actually wish there were more of them. One thing that always bugs me: in the infamy screen, there is no "total BB reduction". There can be a very long list, but I have to add all the modifiers to get to the total. Annoying for me, probably godsend for the OP. Or the magistrates popup: after a few postoffices, that popup is not readable at all! Something like "from postoffices: X" would be far more helpful than "province 1: +0.1, province 2: +0.1, ...". I hope Johan is still reading this thread and making notes

If you don't like the interface additions, you can always selectively ignore them.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

Anything that helps with the interface is good. Anything. Why would I want to hover over a unit, check two values, remember and calculate if their are "correct", if this little red popup does all of that for me, for free?

EU3 is about playing the game, it's a strategy game. You're not supposed to keep track of all these little things, you're supposed to apply them. Anything that helps me apply the game mechanics is a good thing. So I applaud any interface improvements, I actually wish there were more of them. One thing that always bugs me: in the infamy screen, there is no "total BB reduction". There can be a very long list, but I have to add all the modifiers to get to the total. Annoying for me, probably godsend for the OP. Or the magistrates popup: after a few postoffices, that popup is not readable at all! Something like "from postoffices: X" would be far more helpful than "province 1: +0.1, province 2: +0.1, ...". I hope Johan is still reading this thread and making notes

If you don't like the interface additions, you can always selectively ignore them.

I'm with this guy, better interface = better games.

I suppose I'm just a simpleton, though, HoI3 was way more micro-management than I can deal with.

There's 2 schools of thought here, one likes having to apply their attention to detail, and the other likes to build momentum and play a quicker game.

Do you play this game at 5x speed and pause occasionally? Or do you zoom all the way in and study the terrain map for every single battle?

One of this game's biggest strength vs. other strategy games from my perspective, is that when the game gets more complex later on, it doesn't bog down.

Civ and Total War games are just ridiculous after a certain point.

 

[Palaiologos]

Its not about having calculators next to you or hovering your mouse over tooltips.
Its about the game making clear what your next move will be. Highlighted in red=bad, highlighted in green=good. Where is the player skill in that?
In a grand stragy game as this, player judgement should be the key feature.
Anything that limits this shouldn't be in. I am not talking about interface features that facilitate your decisions-95%of them are doing that. I am talking about interface features that actually point you at what to do. Plain and simple, no thinking.
Of course anything that helps with the interface is desirable, up to a point. Why should cavalry be highlighted red when it exceeds the ratio? That is where the player skill should come in.

It also takes the magic out.

I mean who hasn't played Championship manager and took the trouble to write down(pen and paper) players he was interested in or kept a log of which starsystems he visited in Starflight(anybody remember that btw?).


Btw i second your comments about the magistrates or postal offices. These should have been already set straight btw.And if Jonan is still reading this, then how about having the land armies gain some morale after a victory, blockades aiding in sieges and weight size depended on number of men instead of number of regiments.

 

[Palaiologos]

Judging from the replies i think i have been somewhat missintrepreted. Propably due to my inflexible use of english.

Better interface does indeed make for better games.
But what is better? If better means taking the fun out of the game by pointing you to what to do and all the game requires from you is to click, then i am not having any.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

Well, I don't think having something to tell you when you're using a bunk cav/infantry ratio since there's really no explanation of that in the game.

The only way you could really dumb it down would be warning people on poor diplomatic choices - or when your attack is doomed to fail.

Why aren't you complaining about the entire diplomacy system in the game? Shouldn't we have to know our formulas for whether or not our actions will succeed or fail?

While I don't think it's such a nonsense idea to have a hardcore mode with all the tooltips removed, I'd take it as something of an insult to call the alternative 'novice' mode...

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Judging from the replies i think i have been somewhat missintrepreted. Propably due to my inflexible use of english.

Better interface does indeed make for better games.
But what is better? If better means taking the fun out of the game by pointing you to what to do and all the game requires from you is to click, then i am not having any.

But the game doesn't force you to make the decisions, as a player you can decide yourself what to do. if I want to have all cavalry army then I built it, no matter what the tooltip says.

 

[Trin Tragula]

A good interface is not undesirable. In fact making information more digestible is pretty much what an interface is about all together.
The game used to hide a lot of information to it's users for no reason at all (I'm thinking about tech groups, unit types, even badboy was once secret). Would you rather all these things became hidden again?

The skill in the game was never in knowing the rules. Skill is about using the rules. The only thing an improved interface helps with is telling you what you're seeing in a more clear way.
Seeing if you have the combined arms modifier at a glance isn't helping you with your strategy, just giving you a better view of the situation that's there to start with.

 

[unmerged(11600)]

I have to say that the OP probably hasn't played the board game version, where the rules contradict the examples in some parts, probably due to variations in the translation to English. If not having enough INF to get the Tactics bonus is highlighted in red, it makes clear what the rule is. Is the rule 1) more than half the army is INF; 2) at least half the army is INF; 3) more INF than any other type; 4) at least as much INF as any other type; 5) more INF than CAV; or 6) at least as much INF as CAV? If the UI makes clear that I've misinterpretted the rule, that's a good thing.

-Pat

 

[tuore]

I have to say that the OP probably hasn't played the board game version

Probably only 1% of the Eu3 gamers HAVE played the board game. You can't find it anywhere anymore.

 

[Gummi]

Just imagine the tooltips and help in general as an advice from your advisors. No king rules alone Or sultan, or even dictator.

 

[unmerged(62860)]

I have no problem with these latest changes but what I would like to see to make the game more of a challange is the removal of the 100% accurate spy sats we got.

Knowing precisly how many men, ships, arrival dates, enemys we etc takes away alot of the challange imho. This should be dependant on your spy efficiency.

Edit: spelling

 

[Profane]

I played Empire in Arms an Avalon hill board game focusing on the Napoleonic era that had a lot of similarities and some of the basic concepts.

Anyways improving the ui does not reduce the complexity nor the depth of the game, it simply allows one to gather information and make decisions faster allowing you to spend more time on overall strategy.

Oh and Balor could i possibly ask if you guys are working on improving either the provincial decision ledger page or do anything to make things easier to manage them with a large empire?

 

[Dragnar]

The player skill should come in evaluating the data you get, not in getting it.
Evaluating if you need the combined arms bonus, knowing when a pure cavalry stack is still the better choice, knowing which army is the right one for the job, that's player skill and should be rewarded. Looking at the numbers and doing a bit of mental arithmetic to know if they're in the CA-range is not. That's just boring bookkeeping. Everyone can do that, it's just time consuming.
Evaluating if a certain compete chance is high enough to be profitable, knowing if it's a good idea to invest in a specific CoT, knowing when your trade empire is overstreched, that's player skill. Taking a calculator to recalculate the compete chance all the time is not. Just more bookkeeping and boring work. And again, everyone can do that, it just takes time away from doing actually fun stuff.
If you actually think that calculating a dozen compete chances every time you think about sending a merchant to a CoT has anything to do with "skill" (apart from knowing at which compete chances to send them off), then I humbly question your definition of "skill"...