Too Much Genius?

[Alyiakal]

Well, I can't say much from a purely mechanics point of view (I have had a look in the files and they basically state a percentage chance of inheritance for a trait, but no mention of negative trait increase either), but I can state that empirically, I've definitely seen a lot of strange things when breeding two genius together. I've ended up with a lot of lisps and stutter, some clubfoot, and the occasional slow or imbecile character.

I've noted, however, that if you take two people with two different congenital traits, like say a strong character and a genius character, and breed them, the whole negative trait spam doesn't seem to happen as much, and I get a few strongs, a few geniuses, and if I'm really lucky, strong geniuses . But then if I try to find another strong genius, or just a regular genius or strong to breed with this new supercharacter, things rapidly go downhill next generation with the aforementioned lisps and stutters and all manner of nasty things hitting seemingly half the offspring.

Maybe it's just terrible luck, but it seems that the same traits on both parents don't seem to play nice all the time.

RE: Registering the game. Whatever. I honestly couldn't care less what other people do, so long as the mods don't have a problem with it. But Paradox is one of the few companies that actually put out thought provoking quality games and haven't dumbed everything down for the masses (Firaxis, I'm looking at you), so I am proud to support them as a developer.

 

[Dakk]

Regarding this whole register shenanigans:
During the 200k event a forum user asked: "With 200,000 accounts, you must have a fair amount of data to mine. What was the most surprising thing you learned about us, the forumites?"
Johan's answer: "That if someone has not registered a game, he's extremely likely to not have bought it."

So.. yeah.

EDIT:

PI Publishers(?): With 200,000 accounts, you must have a fair amount of data to mine. What was the most surprising thing you learned about us, the forumites?

That if someone has not registered a game, he's extremely likely to not have bought it.

 

[Faber81]

I believe that they actually put in the possibility for two geniuses to be likely to breed an imbecile, or a dwarf, etc, in one of the patches.

I did have several bad congenital traits as well, but I always had at least one genius (male or female, in agnatic-cognatic elective it doesn't matter that much).

 

[Chyll]

As I said, DNA has absolutely nothing at all to do with the distribution of any trait except "Inbred". Everything else is either random (randomly picked trait or randomly picked opposite trait (so that two slow weaklings can make a strong genius, but extremely rarely)) or decided by the traits itself (further randomness, but more in check)

Yet data mining and a long discussion seems to indicate otherwise... you are right it is not directly related to the DNA sequence but there does seem to be a statistical pattern that is not fully random. Later patches may have influenced these results.

 

[JonStryker]

Yet data mining and a long discussion seems to indicate otherwise... you are right it is not directly related to the DNA sequence but there does seem to be a statistical pattern that is not fully random. Later patches may have influenced these results.

The data mining thread was started back in June. I think in one of the patches after that date something was chanced about that mechanic.

 

[Kyoumen]

For me that is the case and the reasons are:

1. It is easy to register a game and takes something like 10 seconds, not doing it is either unbelievably lazy or 'shady'.

Is it so hard for Paradox forum posters to just mind their own damn business? It is not your job, your responsibility, or your right to harass people about registering their games. If they want to access the tech support or mod forums, they should register their games. Otherwise, it is not any of your concern whether they register or not. The weekly witchhunt on the forums for people who have not registered sufficient games to be allowed to be part of Forum Club is easily the single most obnoxious behaviour here, and it is against the rules to boot.

 

[Malibu Stacey]

Is it so hard for Paradox forum posters to just mind their own damn business? It is not your job, your responsibility, or your right to harass people about registering their games. If they want to access the tech support or mod forums, they should register their games. Otherwise, it is not any of your concern whether they register or not. The weekly witchhunt on the forums for people who have not registered sufficient games to be allowed to be part of Forum Club is easily the single most obnoxious behaviour here, and it is against the rules to boot.

"For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing."

 

[OrdepNM]

Is it so hard for Paradox forum posters to just mind their own damn business? It is not your job, your responsibility, or your right to harass people about registering their games. If they want to access the tech support or mod forums, they should register their games. Otherwise, it is not any of your concern whether they register or not. The weekly witchhunt on the forums for people who have not registered sufficient games to be allowed to be part of Forum Club is easily the single most obnoxious behaviour here, and it is against the rules to boot.

Ive never seen think weekly witch hunt you talk off, are you sure youre not exagerating just alittle bit?

People ask other people to register because they want to answer their questions, but dont want to answer questions of unregistered people who may be pirates. Nobody is pointing guns or flaming them, its usually more of a "help me help you" kind of deal.

******
I think a nice test to see if the DNA code affects traits or not is to go to character builder, build a character and take note of the numbers for the head features, start the game, save and start a new game w character builder, re-create the same portrait exactly but this time assign different genetic traits. Save to a new save file and compare both on a text editor. If the lines are the same, probably DNA doesnt have hereditary trait information. I plan on trying that later today if I find the time.

 

[Chyll]

The data mining thread was started back in June. I think in one of the patches after that date something was chanced about that mechanic.

Agreed, which is why I also mentioned patch effect.
Probably need the entire exercise be repeated before definite conclusions.

 

[Darkgamma]

The data mine is totally irrelevant now. DNA does not contain any trait information, it's only concerned with the looks.

Edit: And the thread also mentions that DNA didn't matter, even back in July.

 

[MartinSWE]

Is it so hard for Paradox forum posters to just mind their own damn business? It is not your job, your responsibility, or your right to harass people about registering their games. If they want to access the tech support or mod forums, they should register their games. Otherwise, it is not any of your concern whether they register or not. The weekly witchhunt on the forums for people who have not registered sufficient games to be allowed to be part of Forum Club is easily the single most obnoxious behaviour here, and it is against the rules to boot.

Take it easy, I just said that I´m reluctant to aid persons who claims to own a game without proof. Ofcourse people are free to not register their game(s) for whatever reason the might have. Also from what I have seen moderators tells people to register their game(s) all the time to get proper support so I certainly don´t think it´s against the rules to do so.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

@MartinSWE: You are not a mod, so you don't need to make that kind of decision.

More generally, it's entirely possible that the poster is playing the demo, or trying a friends copy, or perhaps they simply want to learn more about the game before purchasing. They may also just dislike registering games. Either way, there's no need to harass them to register.

It's my opinion that every pirate is a potential buyer, so rather then speaking in negatives (register your games, or else) we should speak in positives (IE you gain X, Y and Z from registering!). They should feel good about buying and registering their games, rather then bad about not doing so. If they associate good feelings with this forum, they'll stick around, if they feel we are prickly and unfriendly, they won't. If we want to expand this forum's regular user base (and the number of people who buy/register games) then the most important thing we can do is to make the experience of new members as nice as possible. Hounding them to register as Darkgamma did at #6 is going to make this forum seem less welcoming then it really is. That user was a fairly new user, and it's entirely possible that the unpleasant experience will cause him to reduce his activity in the forum, and perhaps never return.

Now it's entirely Paradox's prerogative to not provide support to pirated copies etc. but it is not ours. Ours is to be as helpful as possible with everyone interesting in the game, and in doing so increase the size of the community, display the advantages of being registered and fully able to use the boards. But it's not our job to be the "registration" police. If non-registered users get out of line, that should be for mods to decide. If they are looking for resources that are only in the restricted forum, we should provide them a link to that resource, and politely inform them that they'll need to register their game to access it, but not otherwise cast any judgement on them. As "lay" users, it is not our place to judge others. They may be pirates, or them may not be...

 

[N Katsyev]

...They may be pirates, or them may not...

And if they are, that's when we burn them at the stake!

 

[Arokel]

The pirates discussion was not the reason I started this thread.

Please get back on topic.

 

[Redwulf_Storm]

The pirates discussion was not the reason I started this thread.

Please get back on topic.

I hate to be a cog, yet I think this "discussion" is very much on topic in proving how few geniuses there really are in our present world...CK2 is trying to show us that our ancestors started out as geniuses then slowly through carefully breeding smarties together, came up with us, the imbeciles. Paradox had the right of it in game. What say you now? ;-P

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

I feel like hereditary traits need to be totally redone. If you're not full-blown roleplaying, there's almost no reason to marry someone whose not a genius, especially if you're playing a Muslim dynasty. The odds of having another genius are too high to worry about the risk of having an imbecile. Even if it were higher, I'd probably prefer a genius over an attractive person.

I don't even know why the genius trait is passed by heredity. It should be like a 0.5% chance over all born characters. But then, I guess that goes into defining what a genius actually is. Some people see it as Albert Einstein level, and some would say its the person who can play piano by ear and speak six languages. But being considered a genius usually revolves around aptitudes in fields which are considered useful, artistic, or difficult. The game seems to consider a genius 'someone who is naturally good at everything'.


OT:
The only reason why I register my games on this forum is to get patches or use the mod forum. Because I don't really care about the icons, I haven't registered Darkest Hour on the forum.

 

[unmerged(348803)]

This thread is disgusting. "Blah blah blah, I am holier than these peasants who might be playing a demo version or on a sibling's computer or GOD FORBID have pirated something once like everyone in the world. The number of icons under my user name is indicative of the size of my genitals, blah blah blah."

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

You should really buy more icons, dude. They come with these strategy games which are pretty okay.

 

[Bigheeed]

Ignoring the rest of the thread, there are already some intensive studies done by players onto the genetics and i think it more or less conclusively proved that it was just a percentage chance and had nothing to do with careful breeding.
So it was just as likely to get a genius from 2 imbeciles as 2 geniuses....
However with patch 1.08 (and maybe 1.07 i forget) they seem to have increased these percentages based on the parents traits however i don't think it carries over in the DNA files to grandchildren etc as they only cover visual portraits.

Previously I don't think Paradox ever came out to confirm or deny any of this preferring not to crush the spirit of those who to liked to try breeding the ultimate ruler but even i have noticed the increased likelihood of parents passing on the traits. Is it too easy? Without elective probably not, a fair amount of first born etc aren't the ones that get the best stats but people can play how they want.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Without elective probably not, a fair amount of first born etc aren't the ones that get the best stats but people can play how they want.

I'd say that's fairly correct. But its quite clearly imbalanced for Muslim leaders, as they can pick whoever they want to succeed them by giving the child land. Even with primogeniture law, its still worth the risk to marry a genius to your heir, unless you can find a duchess or better who's willing to marry regularly.