Too many title and stupid council

[Zarine]

I'm seeking some help with my first play with the latest DLC.

Here is the situation :
I just won a holy war and got 4 provinces.
I'm over my demesne limit by 3
My council do vote for title granting

They hate me and don't allow me to give title to any one except themselves but 1 out of 6 members of the council is not enough.
I guess the fact that I get a -30 opinion because of the over the limit modifier doesn't help at all.

And finally it seems stupid to take a tyran penalty only because I want to give land that I don't need nor want for myself...

is there an elegant way out of such STUPID situation (thanks PI on this bad design) ?

 

[gdj]

Unfortunately, there is no elegant way to solve this. "title grant commitee" is by far the most broken part of conclave, i never enact it. But even then i run into the same problems when i have a regency, and the council votes on everything.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Usually you can get away with granting land to a relative of one of the council. If not, find someone on the council who has favours owed by other councillors, and see if you can get one on him, and make him vote your way. Hopefully he'll sway other councillors.

If not, there's an event that can fire when you've got too many holdings where someone will offer to help with handing out titles. I don't know if it fires when you're just over the limit though.

You can try checking the intrigue menu to see if you can "request assistance" with titles, but beware it doesn't always make logical decisions about handing them out.

 

[Rognvaldr19]

There is always someone you can grant that land to, no doubt whoever has the most sway in the council, but why the heck you've even let them have that specific council law is beyond me unless you've been outstandingly unlucky or made some horrendous decisions that have made your council stronger than you.

If anything, your best strategy here is to sort out your own internal affairs before you start trying to expand.

 

[Bernard95]

Yeah, admittedly this is one of the only areas where Conclave truly falls flat on its face and can genuinely be a pain in the rear to deal with. I feel like we honestly need more ways to influence people other than basically bribing or going quid pro quo on a vote. Off the top of my head, you'd think maybe some of the stuff from WoL could have integrated with Conclave. Use the Intriuge focus to blackmail someone into a favor, the Seduction focus to seduce someone into a favor, and maybe even the Carousing focus to get someone drunk and then convincing them to sign off on a law without them necessarily remembering the next day.

Edit: Don't mean to de-rail this thread, but I got little bit bored of studying and these just sort of popped into my mind. None of these should probably be regular events, but if these or events like them popped up every now and then it would be nice to have an extra favor here and there.

-Hunting: Saved someone's life from a [regionally appropriate animal] attack while out during a grand/tiger hunt. Character is grateful and owes you a favor.

-War: You've won a duel and decided to spare someone's life. If they are not Proud, they will be begrudgingly grateful and owe you a favor.

-Theology: Helped someone out with a manner of faith (nothing specific comes to mind at the moment).

-Scholarship: You were able to research a problem / invented something in order to help another character using your learning stat.

-Family: You fell in love with your spouse and they'll do anything to help you stay on your throne or alternatively, you're on such good terms with your family members you can ask for a favor.

-Business: You either helped a character make money (perhaps on a trading expedition?) or you talked someone out of a bad investment (carpenter's guild or the "discount castle" event?).

-Rulership: Your subjects have come to recognize that you've been trying your hardest to do what's best for the realm (you're stressed/depressed). Allows you to ask for a favor from a vassal with decent opinion.

-Lifestyle, Impaler: For an Impaler specifcally, you tortured someone in your dungeon. They wanted you to stop, so they've agreed that they will owe you a favor in exchange for their life (high chance if the character you tortured is Craven).

-Lifestyle, Occultist: For an Occultist specifically, perhaps you communed with the spirits for someone (long lost loved one maybe?).

-Lifestyle, Poet: One of your poems saved someone's love life (this is admittedly sort of a goofy one).

-Lifestyle, Strategist: You showed someone some new tactics that ended up aiding them greatly on the battlefield.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Yeah, admittedly this one of the only areas where Conclave truly falls flat on its face and can genuinely be a pain in the rear to deal with. I feel like we honestly need more ways to influence people other than basically bribing or going quid pro quo on a vote. Off the top of my head, you'd think maybe some of the stuff from WoL could have integrated with Conclave. Use the Intriuge focus to blackmail someone into a favor, the Seduction focus to seduce someone into a favor, and maybe even the Carousing focus to get someone drunk and then convincing them to sign off on a law without them necessarily remembering the next day.

Some good ideas there - perhaps a dev might notice and bring them in later?

 

[Zarine]

but why the heck you've even let them have that specific council law is beyond me

Because that's my first game with this patch and until this badly design part where you get blocked I dealt with them nicely and even with full power they are "nice".
If I wasn't in excess and had to deal with the council I wouldn't care at all.
If I want to give a duke title and they don't want the guy to get it, yeah sure. But not blocking me between -30 opinion for too many land and -30 opinion for tyranny...

And I checked the possibility to propose a title to each and every member of the council, I always get 1 and only 1 guy in favor, the one for who I propose the title.


And agree with Bernard, I want more option to deal with them. Seduction, diplomacy, military, land promise, blackmail....
A "screw you guys, I take all your right back, fight me if you want" would be great too.

 

[deadhand13]

So a bunch of politicians aren't able to get along, resulting in the kingdom stagnating because of too much freedom?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Because that's my first game with this patch and until this badly design part where you get blocked I dealt with them nicely and even with full power they are "nice".
If I wasn't in excess and had to deal with the council I wouldn't care at all.
If I want to give a duke title and they don't want the guy to get it, yeah sure. But not blocking me between -30 opinion for too many land and -30 opinion for tyranny...

And I checked the possibility to propose a title to each and every member of the council, I always get 1 and only 1 guy in favor, the one for who I propose the title.


And agree with Bernard, I want more option to deal with them. Seduction, diplomacy, military, land promise, blackmail....
A "screw you guys, I take all your right back, fight me if you want" would be great too.

Is the option to request help with handing out titles there in the intrigue menu?

 

[Zarine]

Is the option to request help with handing out titles there in the intrigue menu?

Nop, I checked the files it's only available when you are at +4

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Nop, I checked the files it's only available when you are at +4

I can *never* remember the thresholds for these things...

Perhaps it's time to annex something else random, and then ask for help

 

[Chunakun]

Sometimes one of the councillors has a favour from the others and is blocking them for voting for you. Find the culprit and fire him from the council and put somebody in the council who would likely vote for you.

 

[Cat Crusade]

Fire offending councillors and replace with people who have high oppinion of you and little to no actual power in the realm (barons, unlanded) and you'll likely end up with loyalists who will support whatever you propose. Those who still block you can be bought off with fairly cheap favors. Or alternatively put people who owe you favors already on the council and then call in their council support. It's not like there aren't options.

 

[Kapitalisti]

is there an elegant way out of such STUPID situation (thanks PI on this bad design) ?

Kill them. All.

 

[Thrake]

First things first, I think that there's a delay of a few months beetween the moment you get over demesne limit and the moment people get angry, so you should consider pausing and delivering titles right after peacing out.

Unlanded courtiers ignore some penalties, although I don't remember if it's too many duchies, too big demesne or both but they can be good temporary replacements to hand out titles (beware though as they get back the opinion penalties as soon as you land them, though it's obviously mitigated by the granted title opinion modifier).

Otherwise, if a councilor has enough support from other councilors, you can find someone that HE wants to see getting lands, like his son or himself. Alternatively the council usually agrees to land unlanded councilors although there are refusal conditions like "he's my rival". Also unlanded courtier will oppose landing non councilors (they want lands for them first). A good start is to fire any malcontent from the council, or anybody with a favor from a malcontent, bring in people with a positive opinion in the council (very unlikely to be malcontent; could be some of your close dynasts that will then support landing your brother if you wish so...). It's also possible to buy favors from people that would not accept council support (sometimes I send gift first if I can't outright buy a favor; almost anybody with a positive opinion before the gift should accept).

As above, there's almost always someone that you can land but it depends on who's in your council; I highly suggest checking why the AI votes yes or no, it is very informative to learn new ways on how to work around angry vassals. Then once you got away of one or two titles it's much easier to get away of more titles as people are less angry at you.

 

[Ulfing]

As above, there's almost always someone that you can land but it depends on who's in your council;

Which is exactly why I don't get why it is referred to as "bad design". Land can only be granted by the authority of the council, so of course the council will only let you grant the land to who they want, which is usually themselves or their relatives. If you don't, they get angsty.

Granted, it could certainly be clearer where the available grants are.

Bottom line is, once you've fallen into this trap once, you'll not do it on your subsequent playthroughs. Giving this power to the council is like the beginning of the death spiral that makes you into little more than a puppet "head of state".