Too many technologies?
- Thread starter Alspego
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Absolutely agree.
I like playing the game into the very LG and the repeatable technologies start way too early. (It's also a problem that the Devs never added any new repeatable technologies making the LG-techtree even more stale. I mean, come on - over the last patches many quantizable mechanics have been included, yet they never added any repeatable tech for them!)
I think the tech load is a constant concern actually. The tech-card system is neat, but the big disadvantage it comes with is that it can become infeasible for players to actually strategize their research if tech branches are improperly balanced, if tech tiers are overloaded, or if techs arent optimally weighted.
Thats one of the big reasons I'm leery of certain mods that add too many techs, there are so many dimensions in which techs have to be balanced.
Thats not to say I necessarily think that in the vanilla game there are necessarily too many techs or too few. I just think that adding techs carelessly is one of the easiest ways for PDX or modders to completely break the tech tree.
Thats one of the big reasons I'm leery of certain mods that add too many techs, there are so many dimensions in which techs have to be balanced.
Thats not to say I necessarily think that in the vanilla game there are necessarily too many techs or too few. I just think that adding techs carelessly is one of the easiest ways for PDX or modders to completely break the tech tree.
I think that Scientist Leader selection should have even more influence on technology options then it already does and also some method of getting the leader with the trait you want. That way you have influence on what kind of technology you see but not exactly which ones.
I would like to see more technologies, and less. More, because I don't like hitting repeatable technologies before 2400. Less, because there's a ton of technologies that are underwhelming and I hate researching stupid stuff just so they won't come up in the cards again. All the ship hull upgrades/build speed upgrades, all the weapons I don't care about because I already have better weapons, etc. If I decide I want my end game fleet to be battleships with Kinetic artillery + Plasma weapons, then I really don't want to ever research missiles or point defense or strike craft or autocannons or lasers V or whatever. Essentially I want a way to say 'You know, I'm not going to research this ever. Don't show me this technology in my cards again. If you do, I'll execute you.' Seems especially stupid that there's dangerous technologies that we're theoretically supposed to want to avoid and yet there's no way to do so without them showing up in our cards until we finally give in and take them just to get rid of them.
Technologies are in an interesting state right now.
In relative terms, I think there are "too many" technologies since the overhaul of 2.2, because now so many technologies are simple yield modifiers, which is just boring in my opinion. I don't hink there's really a good reason to have a ton of non-repeatable technologies that just increase your efficiency, that's what other parts of the game already do - techs should unlock new toys to play with.
In absolute terms though, I think there are way too few technologies, because aside from the rare ones, I always get the exact same technologies every game.
So really, it's not so much about the current number of techs, it's more that there's just not enough "cool stuff" to unlock, not enough interesting toys to play with. In my opinion, the ratio of upgrades that actually allow you to do new stuff vs. upgrades that just add another modifier on top of the existing ones is in a rather suboptimal state.
In relative terms, I think there are "too many" technologies since the overhaul of 2.2, because now so many technologies are simple yield modifiers, which is just boring in my opinion. I don't hink there's really a good reason to have a ton of non-repeatable technologies that just increase your efficiency, that's what other parts of the game already do - techs should unlock new toys to play with.
In absolute terms though, I think there are way too few technologies, because aside from the rare ones, I always get the exact same technologies every game.
So really, it's not so much about the current number of techs, it's more that there's just not enough "cool stuff" to unlock, not enough interesting toys to play with. In my opinion, the ratio of upgrades that actually allow you to do new stuff vs. upgrades that just add another modifier on top of the existing ones is in a rather suboptimal state.
Eh.... within limits yes it is. For one thing thats why scientists have traits, and all techs have tech weights.
A number of other examples include:
a. A number of techs having an increased chance to show up when you have certain traditions taken, supremacy grants increased ship & component weights for instance.
b. A small number of techs have increased weights for certain Ethic types
c. Gateway techs, like Exoskeletons, can be ignored to safely remove an entire sub-branch of techs from your pool
d. Researching debris, of course, either to get techs, or to intentionally remove them from the pool
e. A number of techs are not only unlocked by Ascension Perks, but a number of other techs have an increased weight if you've taken certain Perks
f. Starbase upgrade techs for instance are weighted based on the number of upgraded starbases of the previous type you have
g. Upgrades of buildings that use strategic resources are generally gated behind whether or not you have access to that resource
h. Certain techs are actually weighted based on your Civics, or even excluded
I. Certain techs are weighted, or even excluded, based on your policies
j. Certain techs are weighted by what megastructures you have
k. Certain techs are even weighted by the level of the scientist you have doing the research
l. Certain techs are weighted by how many planets you own
m. There are techs weighted or excluded based on your pop rights, slave techs being an obvious example.
n. There are techs weighted by your active country modifiers, like Curator Insight
o. There are of course a number of techs that you can most easily get from anomalies, and even ones you can specifically fish by completing anomalies in a certain order or in a certain way. The rare and expensive tech Construction Templates for instance can be easily fished from anomalies if you first research Assembly Pattern
So.... I really cant agree with your assertion. Tons of effort has been specifically put into making research strategizable.
I'd like technologies to be more like a "one way trip". I'd like empires to be focused in key techs like "all on shields" and regular at everything else, and the likes.
This is doable with current techs, but new ones would be cool also.
This is doable with current techs, but new ones would be cool also.
I think we need more like has been said, but the other thing I want is more ethics-unique techs. Right now most techs are completely the same and it leaves the tech progression feeling very bland whether I am playing spiritual authoritarians or materialist pacifists. Give us more techs that only X people can get (with some for all ethics, of course), and preferably even some that you need to be fanatic for! That would help ensure the tree feels a bit different each go around.
I would say that there are way too few in vanilla but the mods out that add more techs tend to add a bit too much, especially for the AI which is terrible at picking good techs and just ends up falling father behind on important things the more tech paths you add. Haven't found a good balance yet.
i'd be fine with adding more as long as
a. they're interesting
b. they prune/condense the ones that aren't
a. they're interesting
b. they prune/condense the ones that aren't
@ ursa1234: depends on what we mean by "strategize" in this context. Raise the probability of gaining tech X within a reasonable timeframe? OK, but if that's the definition then how has doing it become unfeasable?
More, please. Throw some real whacky ones in there. Perhaps more specialized branching tech paths so you don't just research everything by the end game and everyone has the same ships.
I need more!
There could be more technologies to increase effectivness of alloy and goods production (separete).
Or one biofuel rafinery turning food into energy.
There could be some weird stuff connected with ethos or ascession perk. Like Biological Ascession having living ships (like hull plating bonus which regenerates)
Or Synthetic Evolotion having drone StrikeCrafts (very fast, very furious, double amount)
Side line bombers strike crafts which are slower but hit harder. More prone to PD.
Repeating upgrade for hull value in %.
Research facillities allowing to specialize in one type of technology.
Upgrade for Starbases allowing to build Small Guns or Point defense.
There could be more technologies to increase effectivness of alloy and goods production (separete).
Or one biofuel rafinery turning food into energy.
There could be some weird stuff connected with ethos or ascession perk. Like Biological Ascession having living ships (like hull plating bonus which regenerates)
Or Synthetic Evolotion having drone StrikeCrafts (very fast, very furious, double amount)
Side line bombers strike crafts which are slower but hit harder. More prone to PD.
Repeating upgrade for hull value in %.
Research facillities allowing to specialize in one type of technology.
Upgrade for Starbases allowing to build Small Guns or Point defense.
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I don't know about more. Maybe if they're gated, so that you don't hit the repeatable ones as soon.
I think the card system is a bigger problem, not so much because I can't "strategise" (although it would be nice to be able to more easily target specific techs) but I frequently seem to just miss out on early game techs, which can be super frustrating. I often seem to miss the tech that gives productions targets, often it won't show up til mid-game!
I think the card system is a bigger problem, not so much because I can't "strategise" (although it would be nice to be able to more easily target specific techs) but I frequently seem to just miss out on early game techs, which can be super frustrating. I often seem to miss the tech that gives productions targets, often it won't show up til mid-game!
They really need to make the technology card system deeper by having an in-game tech tree showing what each one unlocks and having more factors that you can influence to increase the odds of certain techs appearing as well as showing those factors. I'm just glad that someone went to all the effort to put a tech tree together outside of the game just wish paradox would incorporate it.
I want more game changer techs like jump drives. Maybe even some unique techs not everyone can get.
Dyson bombs, build a new planet out of minerals, artificial moons (peaceful death star), designer plagues, letters of mark, transform into a subterranean empire, create a primitive life seeded empire, send pioneers into the intergalactic void! Quirky stuff like that.
Dyson bombs, build a new planet out of minerals, artificial moons (peaceful death star), designer plagues, letters of mark, transform into a subterranean empire, create a primitive life seeded empire, send pioneers into the intergalactic void! Quirky stuff like that.