Too many provinces in Europe

[witcher1701]

The sheer amount of provinces on the continent makes the earliest bookmark unbalanced and rather ahistorical. I doubt the early Frankish kingdoms were individually stronger than the Islamic powers of the time, but because of how many provinces are under their control, their income and levies tend to skyrocket. It makes sense for 1066+ but that's about it. And yes, I understand the muslims receive a levy boost from their religion, as well as some Middle Eastern Christian denominations, but it's not quite enough. Starting in the Age of Vikings bookmark and upgrading your provinces a bit as one of the Frankish kingdoms makes your numbers go through the roof. At one point I was fielding 100k troops as a united Frankish Empire. Tell me that makes sense.

 

[Industrious81]

Not a popular opinion and most hardliners will neg you for it but I definitely agree. West and Central Europe are waaay overboard in province count.

You get a checkmark from me.

 

[Palfouri]

In my experience all those provinces don't save Europe from getting beaten up by muslims and pagans more than the other way around. Maybe it's unbalanced if you're a player taking advantage of the region's potential but when it's AI control the rest of the world does more than well enough in comparison. All those provinces just mean more powerful revolts.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

Yeah, for a human player, it is easy to unite or form the empire. But I think that for a human player, even with HIP blobbing is way too easy, and without setting some personal rules, games get very, very easy after a century or two.
But AI on the other hand doesnt know really how to deal with war on multiple fronts, revolts and upgrading provinces and holdings in the best way, so .. the advantage a human has, is very often neglected. On top of it, Frankish Empire has inheritance laws that screw them up very, very quickly, compared to the Muslims. In general I would like to see more provinces, I think there is not enough of them in Europe, but also in other areas as well. I hope CK3 goes down the road of Imperator: Rome when it comes to number of provinces.

 

[JasperClay]

The sheer amount of provinces on the continent makes the earliest bookmark unbalanced and rather ahistorical. I doubt the early Frankish kingdoms were individually stronger than the Islamic powers of the time, but because of how many provinces are under their control, their income and levies tend to skyrocket. It makes sense for 1066+ but that's about it. And yes, I understand the muslims receive a levy boost from their religion, as well as some Middle Eastern Christian denominations, but it's not quite enough. Starting in the Age of Vikings bookmark and upgrading your provinces a bit as one of the Frankish kingdoms makes your numbers go through the roof. At one point I was fielding 100k troops as a united Frankish Empire. Tell me that makes sense.

I think the thrust of the critique is fair, but the way to solve it is to add modifiers, holdings, and provinces further east, and not to cut down a beautifully represented Europe.

 

[Choorus]

I believe it has been statedd by the devs on a few separate occasions, when this particular issue had been raised that HIP is more about what the devs fancy doing and not a scholarly work. This argument pertained mostly to India, but one gets the idea. I can't blame them though, I always mod exclusively one country and that's it.

 

[myrt]

From what vanilla has demonstrated, cutting down on provinces in Europe won't make the earlier start dates any less "historical". Besides, once you hit the play button, you shouldn't expect any historical outcomes without railroading in the first place. Lastly, if later bookmarks work as usual, why would you think province count is the problem? C'mon

 

[theKing1988]

We won't be balancing our setup based on the 867 bookmark alone. SWMH is SO MUCH more, than the earliest possible start date

Cutting large parts of Europe would also be to shoot ourselves in the foot in our own opinion, so it's very unlikely for that reason as well.

 

[IAmNotAmused]

I think the thrust of the critique is fair, but the way to solve it is to add modifiers, holdings, and provinces further east, and not to cut down a beautifully represented Europe.

Agreed. Persia is mighty sparse.

 

[Arcvalons]

Central Asia could use a big boost in province numbers too, Silk Road and all that.

 

[Black_Rider]

So, If I want to play with 867 bookmark, it is better to play with vanilla map or SWMH ?

 

[Austregisel]

Agreed. Persia is mighty sparse.

Much Rich provinces, but with few provinces, Persia is a desert with mountains, should have many more provinces, but few extremely rich because of trade between the West and the East, or am I wrong? I do not know if the nomads need more provinces, always when I basically become the Khan of all nomadic provinces I become extremely powerful (starting in 867) only the troops of the events of Seljuk and the other (which I forgot the name) can (and not tribal), so that I can conquer tribes, let the AI of my vassals do it, and I do not pillage any holding, I give to bishops, barons, and mayors, of course I still remain lord of the county, and I still do not know why they usually loot since I'm ahead of the technologies in the same way without looting. So it is difficult to balance the provinces in the East, it has few but they are extremely rich compared to the majority in the West. I think it depends on the devs of the HIP.

 

[samaritan empire]

have you tried vanilla? I think you'd like it

 

[witcher1701]

So, If I want to play with 867 bookmark, it is better to play with vanilla map or SWMH ?

Even though I criticized SWMH, I would still pick it over vanilla. It's just so much more aesthetically pleasing. Just don't expect balance in that bookmark, I would recommend just starting in 1066.

 

[Kanaric]

this kind of thing is why I always avoided the mod. It's VERY eurocentric to the point of fantasy and possibly ethno-nationalism.

 

[myrt]

this kind of thing is why I always avoided the mod. It's VERY eurocentric to the point of fantasy and possibly ethno-nationalism.

That's *just* why I downloaded it in the first place

 

[Austregisel]

What

 

[Choorus]

this kind of thing is why I always avoided the mod. It's VERY eurocentric to the point of fantasy and possibly ethno-nationalism.

Think twice before You smear a good-willed modder sacrificing his own spare time for our amusement with thinly disguised accusation of racism and xenophobia.

 

[EmoPro]

Particularly I hate it about the province counts in Persia, manueverbility is very limited and battles everywhere will involve mountains and rivers debuff, at least give us more provinces! It sucks to be forced to walk into a huge mountainous province against a smaller enemy force and forced to fight with the debuff.

Heck, if RL warfare works like this(province division, terrain buff/debuff), I bet there would be no Hannibal in our books!

 

[Choorus]

Particularly I hate it about the province counts in Persia, manueverbility is very limited and battles everywhere will involve mountains and rivers debuff, at least give us more provinces! It sucks to be forced to walk into a huge mountainous province against a smaller enemy force and forced to fight with the debuff.

Heck, if RL warfare works like this(province division, terrain buff/debuff), I bet there would be no Hannibal in our books!

I second this notion. Currently there are multiple regions in which the mountainous terrain prevails to a degree that whoever gets there first with an army has a big advantage. Main offender IMO is Armenia/Hay, as there isn't much manoeuvring to be done there. Maybe there should be a few different types of maintains, so there is some variety and chance of clever tactics rather than just forcing through the mountains, as one way or another, the modifiers are going to be the same.
Maybe there should be more impassable reaches, just like in MEIOU & Taxes for EUIV.
On a similar note, there is too many provinces encircled by rivers. It is rather boring really and pales in comparison to a fight in more differentiated terrain.