Too many duchies held?

[Malibu Stacey]

Is there any way to raise the limit of the number of duchies you can hold before you get negative opinion from your vassals?
I'm currently King of Scotland, King of Ireland and King of Wales yet I can still only hold 2 duchies myself? Why does that make any sense? 3 Kingdoms aren't "too many" but 3 duchies apparently are?

Also why do people who have no claim to the duchies and aren't vassals or even de-jure vassals of the duchies I hold get upset about me holding more than 2 at once? It's bad enough all these people who have no possibility to create the Kingdom titles because they hold a county or 2 also giving a negative opinion because they apparently desire it.

Really frustrating trying to get casus belli for counties in England without having to waste decades waiting for a chancellor with 20+ diplomacy to finally rustle up a claim before I can press it.

 

[jordarkelf]

You can edit that in \common\defines.lua
Change MAX_DUCHIES_LEGALLY_HELD = 2 to some other number.

 

[tuareg109]

I always felt it should be 2 duchies per kingdom title.
That way, if you hold 3 kingdom titles (as you do), you can hold 6 duchies with no penalties.
It makes no sense that a Duke can have 30 ducal titles with no penalty (except for the "desires Duchy of X" penalty), while a King can only have 2 (despite most likely having every holding in that county).

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Now that you can destroy titles, it's really not a big deal. You can hold all the counties for a duchy and then just destroy the duke title. In fact, I almost always destroy all the duke titles in my demense. That way I can always usurp or revoke a duke title whenever I want without having to even think about the possible penalty.

 

[Malibu Stacey]

Now that you can destroy titles, it's really not a big deal. You can hold all the counties for a duchy and then just destroy the duke title. In fact, I almost always destroy all the duke titles in my demense. That way I can always usurp or revoke a duke title whenever I want without having to even think about the possible penalty.

I destroy all I can except the 2 I want to hold (Albany and Moray) and those annoying 2 county ones in Ireland which one of the counts will just recreate anyway.

However it would be nice to be able to hold on to the Duchy of Northumberland after I create it so I have a de-jure casus belli on Durham etc.

I always felt it should be 2 duchies per kingdom title.
That way, if you hold 3 kingdom titles (as you do), you can hold 6 duchies with no penalties.
It makes no sense that a Duke can have 30 ducal titles with no penalty (except for the "desires Duchy of X" penalty), while a King can only have 2 (despite most likely having every holding in that county).

Couldn't agree more. Also never knew a Duke can hold as many Duchies as they want to, I just assumed everyone was limited to 2. This doesn't seem arbitrary at all...

Even something like +1 per subsequent kingdom would be slightly better than the hard limit of 2 we currently have (so holding 2 kingdoms means you can hold 3 duchies, holding 3 kingdoms = 4 duchies etc).

 

[tuareg109]

Couldn't agree more. Also never knew a Duke can hold as many Duchies as they want to, I just assumed everyone was limited to 2. This doesn't seem arbitrary at all...

Even something like +1 per subsequent kingdom would be slightly better than the hard limit of 2 we currently have (so holding 2 kingdoms means you can hold 3 duchies, holding 3 kingdoms = 4 duchies etc).

Yes, I've seen many Dukes with 3 or 4 ducal titles (typically in northern England, and in France). I once played a Billung game (Saxony) where I held 8 duchies with NO opinion penalty before forming the Kingdom of Germany and BOOM I'm slammed with a -16 short reign penalty, and a -60 too many held duchies penalty.

And hey, how about that short reign penalty?
Say you start as a character, and you have a -16 short reign penalty. In a few years, that penalty goes to 0.
BUT THEN, you inherit holdings from your (in-game) mother; all vassals coming with that inheritance don't have a -16 opinion of you.
I think the countdown for a reign penalty/bonus should begin the day you become the liege or over-liege of that title.
If a vassal dies, you DO NOT get a penalty from his successor.
If a vassal's vassal achieves independence and pays homage directly to you, you DO NOT get a penalty.
If you jump from Duke to King, you DO NOT get a penalty.
If you push a de jure ducal claim and win, you DO get a penalty.
If you inherit vassals after ruling others for 50 years, you DO get a penalty with the new vassals.

See where I'm going here?
What do you guys think?

 

[ve3609]

I agree on OPs idea and on Tuareg109's idea about not getting the short reign penalty for going from Count->Duke or Duke->King or King-> Emperor. Its insane

 

[unmerged(88697)]

Here's an idea, instead of destroying them why not hand duchy titles over to your heirs (e.g. Duke of Wales becomes Prince of Wales)? These would be honorary titles, of course. A bit of chrome for the game, but this was something done in practice.

 

[tuareg109]

Here's an idea, instead of destroying them why not hand duchy titles over to your heirs (e.g. Duke of Wales becomes Prince of Wales)? These would be honorary titles, of course. A bit of chrome for the game, but this was something done in practice.

This would be historically realistic, but then you'd have a negative opinion for the "desires county of X" from your heirs.
Unless there was some system that a person can hold a duchy and not hold a county or any vassals, this wouldn't work very well relationship-wise.

 

[OrdepNM]

A big part of this game revolves around being able to accept that you cant control everything and have to be ready to delegate. Personally I never destroy duchys and keep the one in my capital only. When Im a king I want my vassals to be dukes and when Im emperor I want my vassals to be kings, keeps things simple.

 

[tuareg109]

A big part of this game revolves around being able to accept that you cant control everything and have to be ready to delegate. Personally I never destroy duchys and keep the one in my capital only. When Im a king I want my vassals to be dukes and when Im emperor I want my vassals to be kings, keeps things simple.

Yes, but if you delegate duchies/kingdoms, your tax income goes down.
Let's say that each count, duke, and kings holds the same amount of demesne holdings, and has to pay 10% of his income to his liege.
Each man has an income of 10 gold/year directly from his own holdings and bishops/cities.
If you're a king with 10 vassal counts, you make 20 gold/year (10 of your own + 10%*10gold*10 men)
If you're a king and you hand out duchies to those vassals, you have, say:
Duke with 3 counts, 13 gold/year (4 holdings, 1 ducal demesne + 3 vassal counts)
Duke with 5 counts, 15 gold/year (6 holdings, 1 ducal demesne + 5 vassal counts)
Now they give you 10% of their income: 1.3+1.5+10(of your own) = 12.8

No matter how you do it, no matter how you spin it, your income is higher if you have as many direct vassals as possible while holding as many demesne titles as possible.

 

[Comradebot]

I always felt it should be 2 duchies per kingdom title.
That way, if you hold 3 kingdom titles (as you do), you can hold 6 duchies with no penalties.
It makes no sense that a Duke can have 30 ducal titles with no penalty (except for the "desires Duchy of X" penalty), while a King can only have 2 (despite most likely having every holding in that county).

Couldn't disagree more. The problem isn't with a king with 12 kingdoms being limited to two duchies, the problem is that a simple Duke can have as many duchies as he wants. Rather than make being a giant blob easier as a king, it should be harder for someone who is just a Duke to just collect Ducal titles and avoid the penalties with Kinghood.

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

Yes, but if you delegate duchies/kingdoms, your tax income goes down.
Let's say that each count, duke, and kings holds the same amount of demesne holdings, and has to pay 10% of his income to his liege.
Each man has an income of 10 gold/year directly from his own holdings and bishops/cities.
If you're a king with 10 vassal counts, you make 20 gold/year (10 of your own + 10%*10gold*10 men)
If you're a king and you hand out duchies to those vassals, you have, say:
Duke with 3 counts, 13 gold/year (4 holdings, 1 ducal demesne + 3 vassal counts)
Duke with 5 counts, 15 gold/year (6 holdings, 1 ducal demesne + 5 vassal counts)
Now they give you 10% of their income: 1.3+1.5+10(of your own) = 12.8

No matter how you do it, no matter how you spin it, your income is higher if you have as many direct vassals as possible while holding as many demesne titles as possible.

Actually I think the main problem with Kingdoms is that you'd get 0 income from them unless you have feudal taxes; and the Doges who used to pay taxes to you now pay it to their immediate liege, who in turn pays nothing to you.