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Kain3

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I beleive I have encounted a new bug or problem since the latest patch, whenever I (or the AI) declares war on a nation, it calls up it's allies.. then those allies call up their allies and it sets of a chain reaction, soon you're at war with 8-10 nations at once. For example when I declared war on Macedonia, it called up Epirus and Sparta, then Sparta called Crete and Rhodes since they were allies, Rhodes called Pergamum, Seleucids.. soon I was in war with the whole Greek world.

It makes wars unplayable in my opinion, and I beleive it worked different in earlier patches, your enemy was able to call it's allies but it stopped there.
 

Cheexsta

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Yep, this has been discussed pretty heavily in the Bugreports forum (register your CD key on the "My Games" page to see the forum). IMHO this and the give title bug are the main game-breaking bugs, though at least the latter can be worked around...
 

Lofman

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It is annoying that is true, though not all bad, the main problem is that the ai will always call for their allies even if there is no need or even when it is against their interest to do so. The positive thing is that it does mean that diplomacy is more important. Remember, divide and conquer, so if you as lets say Rome wish to invade Greece, find a local ally. And be mindful of what allies your intended target has and (unless they are also your allies and will therefore stay neutral) what allies those countries have. So let's assume that Rome has conquered Epirus and wants to go after Macedonia, and Macedonia is allied with Aetolia and Achaea. Then just insure yourself of Aetolian and Achaean neutrality by allying with them yourself (may be easier said then done, but as Rome you should at least not have the problem of having too many allies yourself; the focus should be on whichever of those has the most important allies, if one only has Macedonia then it is not really important to get them on your side). Or make sure your relations with your local ally is good enough to ask them to join and have the entire greek world divided with some on your side and some against you.
 

UniversalWolf

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The positive thing is that it does mean that diplomacy is more important.
Hmm...no I'd call it horrendously broken and unrealistic. Alliance Cascade is the "feature" that finally killed my interest in EVRVV. It's a solid idea in theory, but the implementation is just plain bad. Worse, it's ahistorical. Worse still, it's not fun. I won't be playing again until the issue is corrected, FWIW.

;)
 

Puritan

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Alliance cascade is silly and should not be in the game. It doesn't exactly make the game unplayable, but it certainly makes it less enjoyable.

I'm not sure what's worse, when a great power usurps a war, or that the ai is blind to the possibility of a cascade war. The ai suffers the most, as one state in Gaul will find itself fighting the rest of Gaul, along with Egypt, Rome, and Carthage, or something else moronic like that.
 

Lofman

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Hmm...no I'd call it horrendously broken and unrealistic. Alliance Cascade is the "feature" that finally killed my interest in EVRVV. It's a solid idea in theory, but the implementation is just plain bad. Worse, it's ahistorical. Worse still, it's not fun. I won't be playing again until the issue is corrected, FWIW.

;)

Well diplomacy gets more important compared to before mostly as it was something that was of almost no importance whatsoever. Though you are right that for the most part it is bad (though the change in the patch was mostly that ai actually now use it, it has always been possible to call in allies this way, only the ai never did it).

As I see it one change needed is that the only country able to call in a country powerful enough to take over leadership in a war should be the country currently in control (so if attacking Macedonia, Seleucids will only get called in if they are directly allied), and doing so should be avoided by the ai and only done when the opposition is just to powerful and there hardly remains any hope whatsoever of victory otherwise (it should reduce popularity of ruler just as losing a war does, the popularity loss could be less in defensive wars though).

And countries called in later in the chain should be reluctant to ask their allies unless they actually are directly threatened by the enemy (so in the example in the first post, the Rhodians should not try to call in their allies unless the enemy (I assume he played Rome) actually starts to prove a threat by moving his navy closer to Rhodes/conquers nearby provinces in Hellas without ending the war (ie Sparta or Crete)). So the war would be Rome (and allies) vs Macedonia, Epirus, Sparta, Crete and Rhodes rather then Rome (and allies) vs Macedonia, Epirus, Sparta, Crete, Rhodes, Pergamon, Seleucids and a whole lot of other Greeks. Depending on Roman actions the war could expand but the Seleucids would remain out of it.

Generally the ai should not call in allies if the opposition is much weaker, since what is the point? You get a few more armies moving around and the risk of someone else taking what you wanted will increase. Unfortunately all this would be very difficult to do right (I assume) since, well it is the ai and it is not something that is always clear, and it may easily get too reluctant to call in allies (making things maybe too easy) or remain a bit too eager (meaning things will remain similar to what it is).
 

OberGeneral

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I love this "feature". Bring it on!!!! At war with twelve nations at once, awsome.
Knock them out any way you can, defeat them in war, pay tribute - whittle them down one by one.
 

Praylak

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Yeah I'm on the fence with this one. I've had mostly good experiences with this feature(bug) as it makes more oppurtunities. I suppose though if I was playing as Rome (surrounded by Greek fleets and hated by all) I could see it being a major issue.

But as a Vandalic tribe (using Lofmans mod), when the dust had settled I fullfilled my honour by defending my ally, and was able to obtain allot of war spoils of these Gallic nations that chain ganged us. The distant nations in the alliance (the stupid part of it) never actually made a show, to far or could't get access. Yet they still must have suffered War Exhaustion from it, right? In the end they are made weaker, and we are in a much stronger position then before.