too many changes?

[kurtbrian]

Although I really like most of the changes that are being implemented in the beta patches, I cannot help but think that some of the new features seriously changes the game.

Maybe some more testing needed to be done with each new addtion instead of getting them all at once.

Noone can probably really see how all this affects the historical feel of the game - not to mention game balance.

We won't know if this or that new feature have hampered one nation and made another really growing to a world power.

Anyone have any thoughts towards this

(and Johan this is not meant as a criticism of your work, which I think is really great!)

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Well... that's what patches are for - fixing the flaws introduced by the previous one!

 

[Slargos]

Also.

I point you to: BETA.

 

[unmerged(9191)]

If anything most of these changes will make it more historical.

You didn't inherit the others tax system.

Orthodox wern't ALL hampered

Navies are now ALOT more important

dont see a down side..

 

[Johan]

And what part of the word "beta" is unclear?

 

[RedPhoenix]

Originally posted by Johan
And what part of the word "beta" is unclear?

Yes We are doing the testing here, this isn't an official released patch afterall...

 

[daedalus]

I think Kurt's point is that there is to many changes going on in a single beta process to evaluate the complete impact of the each of new features/rules. He might be right.

 

[unmerged(4868)]

maybe Paradox just invented a new kind of beta....

Shock and Awe Beta Testing

 

[VinceV]

Or maybe the thought is that instead of "fixing" and "tweaking" the game, it is actually evolving into a different game all the time and this evolution only seems to be gaining momentum. I think for the most part the changes are improvements so I'm not criticizing this, but it begs the question "Where does it end?".

Some of the points and criticims that people were starting to come up with I thought were obscure and nit-picky, such as the extreme "doesn't accurately model what happened historically" type where people would forget that it was a game and not a virtual reality simulation.

 

[Nikolai II]

I'd support the idea of fewer changes per patch, if not for a couple of reasons:

Johans programming time is limited (presumably) and fixing things separately will likely take longer time.

Testers might get bored if testing takes forever and ever (number of downloads seem to decrease some by every patch)

Testing something separately for balance might change completely when next change is added, making all previous testing defunct.

.

Not surprisingly I think that my third point should carry some merit

 

[Araanor]

Originally posted by Nikolai II
Testers might get bored if testing takes forever and ever (number of downloads seem to decrease some by every patch)

Isn't it more like older patches have been up for longer and thus had more downloading them?

 

[Slargos]

Well. Let me expand on my previous point which was, perhaps, a bit obscure.

My qualifications are beta-tester for some games including a couple of paradox titles (though not EU2), just so you don't think I'm pulling this out of my arse.

You remember the LONG list of changes in the 1.06? Yes, that's right. Consider them, and think about how long it would've taken if Johan had coded one or two every new beta-patch, had them all tested for a day or two, and then made another one?

Yep.

We'd probably still be playing 1.03 by now.

This is how the beta-process of any game works:

You introduce a lot of the planned additions, you test them like crazy, and you fix (hopefully ) any bugs that appear.

Remember, this is not the official 1.07 patch. This is the BETA.
If you don't like the many changes at one time, simply continue using the 1.06 patch until 1.07 is released (I will assume the official EU2 betas are also playtesting this), which is what you'd be doing had we non-EU2-betas not been giving this rather generous opportunity to play the changes as they come..

I would like to end my fanboy rant with three cheers for Johan. May he never tire of patching EU2.

Huzzah.

Huzzah.

Huzzah.

 

[Slargos]

Originally posted by Nikolai II

Testing something separately for balance might change completely when next change is added, making all previous testing defunct.

Welcome to the world of beta-testing. Recline your chair, open a can of your favourite brand of cola and start the game..

 

[artemis667]

Originally posted by VinceV
Or maybe the thought is that instead of "fixing" and "tweaking" the game, it is actually evolving into a different game all the time and this evolution only seems to be gaining momentum. I think for the most part the changes are improvements so I'm not criticizing this, but it begs the question "Where does it end?".

It ends with EU 2.5.

 

[Medicine Man]

And begins anew with EU3.0. I hope.

 

[VinceV]

Seriously, I'm overwhelmed with the changes. I was on vacation for two weeks and when I come back MP supports 24 players?!!!!!
I heard the request for the longest time of 9 or 10 players but people were always told "not going to happen in EU2". I'm not complaining, but what a surprise!

Oh and my point on the tax collectors being required for census taxes, I thought the idea was "promotion" of the bailiff (ie, upgrade) and not the new creation of a tax system which previously did not exist. Seems a bit of an extreme change....