too hard to destroy cutoff armies

[Dalwin]

I think armies that have been defeated and are far from friendly lines and supply sources are much too difficult to destroy completely.

In my game as Spain, a Russian army had retreated all the way across France, being chased and attacked the entire way. This unit eventually crossed into Spain. I had to attack him at least a dozen times, with 4 or 5 armies constantly making sure that he was never allowed to rest, before he was finally wiped out. His out of supply retreat, under constant harrassment went from Saxony all the way to the northwest corner of Spain.

This seems a bit ridiculous to me.

 

[ohdear]

Totally agree. As Russia I had the remnants of a Spanish army (2K) running around the far Eastern edge of the map for over a year as I kept forgetting about them. They were obviously out of supply, literally thousands of miles from home and had lost over thirty thousand compatriots in battle and the weirdest thing they were marching away from allied lands! This definitely needs sorting out, once an army gets below a certain size I think it should shatter with every man for himself and then maybe something could reform in your capital after a delay to represent the small groups of men who made it back?

 

[ShakyJake]

I know this isn't really a solution, but how much cavalry were you using in your army? This might be something I picked up from Crusader Kings, but cavalry is extremely effective for wiping out retreating men when you win a battle. Fewer men in the enemy army "get away" after the battle, and it takes a lot fewer follow-up battles to reduce an enemy stack into oblivion.

 

[Krask]

I managed to push a prussian army north as russia, they got to a single coastal province and I surrounded the 3 provinces around it so they were trapped. Sent in a fourth army assuming they would be driven into the sea and destroyed, retardedly they just retreated through my armies and ran all the way back to berlin. -.-

 

[Nefaro]

Will be addressed in the update.

 

[unmerged(4217)]

Similar thing happened to me. A single French brigade slipped through my Prussian lines. I chased it for weeks and was relieved to finally trap it on the Texel Peninsula. But the brigade just evaded my attack and I had to start the chase again.

I'm glad this will be adressed in the patch. The AI should not mount offensives with single units. And it should not be able to retreat in the direction of the attack. Maybe evade should be made much more difficult or impossible for armies without cavalry (in reality they would not spot the attack in time or be able to retreat under cover of a cavalry screen).

 

[Regergek]

Will be addressed in the update.

Source?

 

[Liquid Sky]

Yes it is just silly...The French had an army retreating all the way from Moscow, attacked several times, chased by Cossacks and Russians...through hostile territory and still had units make it into France.

Oh wait, that was real life.

 

[hannibal_barca]

Someone from the development team posted they were addressing it. Can't find the actual post right now but its there.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Yes it is just silly...The French had an army retreating all the way from Moscow, attacked several times, chased by Cossacks and Russians...through hostile territory and still had units make it into France.

Oh wait, that was real life.

That was very different. Note that Napoleon didn't "retreat" to the Urals or to Baku. He retreated back toward his Operational starting point, Depots, and relative safety.

 

[Dalwin]

Yes it is just silly...The French had an army retreating all the way from Moscow, attacked several times, chased by Cossacks and Russians...through hostile territory and still had units make it into France.

Oh wait, that was real life.

The obvious difference is that was a sizeable French army which still had something of a logisitcal tail and it was retreating toward its home. To put your comment into the proper perspective, the French would have had to have been defeated outside Paris by the Russians and then retreat all the way to Moscow.

So no, the behaviour in the game is, in no way at all, even loosely mimicking things from real life when it comes to the behaviour of defeated armies.

 

[unmerged(346511)]

I totally understand both sides. Its utterly annoying to chase all those superfase >1000 men units around the map, who even start to besiege taken cities, but on the other hand i'm quite happy to get a few thousand men out when i am on the receiving side.

Although sometimes it seems as if those beaten Ai-armies get superspeed...

 

[Chamboozer]

I totally understand both sides. Its utterly annoying to chase all those superfase >1000 men units around the map, who even start to besiege taken cities, but on the other hand i'm quite happy to get a few thousand men out when i am on the receiving side.

Nothing wrong with the enemy getting men out alive, problem is that instead of retreating to home they retreat deeper into enemy territory.

 

[unmerged(436586)]

I think armies that have been defeated and are far from friendly lines and supply sources are much too difficult to destroy completely.

In my game as Spain, a Russian army had retreated all the way across France, being chased and attacked the entire way. This unit eventually crossed into Spain. I had to attack him at least a dozen times, with 4 or 5 armies constantly making sure that he was never allowed to rest, before he was finally wiped out. His out of supply retreat, under constant harrassment went from Saxony all the way to the northwest corner of Spain.

This seems a bit ridiculous to me.

You can do something against the ping-pong behaviour and the cut off supply lines:
against ping-pong behaviour:
1st: go into your "\March of the Eagles\common" dirctory
2nd: open the file "defines.lua" with notepad++ or wordpad (create a backup of the file is a good idea, if you want to play online)
3rd: search for the entry:
TROOP_KILL_FACTOR = 0.25,
4th: change the entry to a higher number (the higher the number the more losses will be inflicted), example: TROOP_KILL_FACTOR = 0.50,
5th: search for the entry:
MORALELOSS_FACTOR = 3.0,
6th: change the entry to a lower number (the lower the number the longer a unit takes before the moral drops too low and they run), example MORALELOSS_FACTOR = 1.5,
7th: search for the entry:
MORALE_COLLAPSE_THRESHOLD= 0.25,
8th: change the entry to lower number (the lower the number, the more moal loss a unit can suffer), example: MORALE_COLLAPSE_THRESHOLD= 0.125,

against cut-off units/ out of supply units:
1st: search the entry:
EVASION_OUT_OF_SUPPLY_PENALTY = 5.00, -- Penalty if out of supply
2nd: change the entry to a higher numer, the higher the number the lower the chance an out of supply unit will evade combat, example:
EVASION_OUT_OF_SUPPLY_PENALTY = 10.00,

Save and start a new game.

These changes will ensure that battles will last longer, more casualties will be inflicted and units need longer before they stop fighting and start to retreat = less ping-pong madness, and if a unit is out of supply, it will be harder for them to evade combat.

 

[Nefaro]

Source?

See Also: Ping Pong armies.

 

[Dalwin]

Andonai, I don't think that modding the game to increase lethality is an ideal solution. Wars will be much too bloody and end too early. With the mods you are suggesting, I would also change it so that a greater percentage of the lost manpower in each battle trickles back into the national manpower pool.

There are other less obvious consequences to changing the lethality of the battles as well. War weariness will rise much more quickly for example. You would also see idea point gain for the loser increase sharply with those changes.

 

[unmerged(436586)]

Andonai, I don't think that modding the game to increase lethality is an ideal solution. Wars will be much too bloody and end too early. With the mods you are suggesting, I would also change it so that a greater percentage of the lost manpower in each battle trickles back into the national manpower pool.

There are other less obvious consequences to changing the lethality of the battles as well. War weariness will rise much more quickly for example. You would also see idea point gain for the loser increase sharply with those changes.

True the ideal solution would be implementing more rules for retreating armies, or an option to order your cav to harass the fleeing army and deal additional casualties. But the devs didnt implemented something like this, so for a quick solution we have to work within our limits. Sure, a talented modder with a lot of time can do more than just changing lethality, and I am sure we will see in the future some mods that will "fix" many of the problems MotE has in the moment. Again, I only offer a quick and dirty solution and my numbers/the changes are only examples, no suggestions or recommended changes. So if you are unhappy with this part of the game, you can try to change one or all of these and see if these changes pleases you, and you can do it without investing a lot of time.