• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
Off the top of my head without further research, which there will be cos these are pretty good:

Fate of the Titanic?

Very probably exists with a similar name and concept, probably didn't sink because of a comedy of errors. Possibly still does get into trouble, but not to that tragic extent.

What would the Irish nationalist figures in general be up to in this very pro-Empire Ireland?

The Catholic ones still have some fights to win (the monarchy is still inherently anti Catholic with the inheritance and marriage laws, as is the house of lords), the protestant ones are still worried about about being subverted, though to a lesser degree than in OTL (probably looking for secularisation and freedom of religion protection, or something like that), and both are in a decades long hate sling against Dublin (again) for being a wretched hive of scum and villainy (sex, including homosexual, drag, gender fluidity, drink, drugs, music etc).

They may also be riding a late victorian nostalgia/theme park version of their own folklore and culture, a la Highland Scotland. Renewed interest in pre-christian culture, myth, legends, the Irish language etc. Basically similar to OTL Wales and Scotland, only with a much larger population with much more money and political pull.

Fate of the Flemish Movement figures, especially Joris van Severen?

Presumably just normal province politicians and party members in the Flanders region/province of the Netherlands, though they may be a bit more ambitious and looking to get some of France or Luxemburg. Almost certainly the latter, and probably quite put out that they keep getting denied it.

If you're asking German occupation wise...its an interesting one. The germans have the power to give them luxemburg (since they also control that), and also want the dutch out of the war or on their side. So they might be collaborators, or they're super patriots willing to die for the unified monarchy/government.

Depends, I suspect, on whether the Germans favour them or their southern 'enemy' province, which would actually quite like to be maybe indepednant or autonomous within the current kingdom.

What's the status on South American monarchies?

Gut says almost certainly collapsed, but I'd have to research this one.

The only one with a chance is Brazil...and that requires Pedro I to stick around. Pedro II did a good job, but he also didn't care about the monarchy too much and made no real effort to figure out succession (the government seemed dismissive too).

So Brazil...maybe, if Pedro I didn't leave or his son and government made a good go of keeping the crown going (certainly would have been better for Brazil had they done so...).

Will a Dutch crown prince recieve the nickname "Prince Pilsner"?

If the company exists, probably.

Oooh, young love...

It was a really good chapter. But so tangentially related to the AAR that when I got to bringing in half the ton of young aristocrats (and a few jobbing lower middle class people) at the ambassador's ball where they met, it was too much.

Kill your darlings.

No rest untill we are in the grave...

No rest for the wicked, full stop.

"Your bribe better be good Atherleigh"

That's probably exactly what most Dutch people are thinking. Only less politely.
 

J_Master

Høker
49 Badges
Oct 22, 2014
2.431
1.379
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
I
Presumably just normal province politicians and party members in the Flanders region/province of the Netherlands, though they may be a bit more ambitious and looking to get some of France or Luxemburg. Almost certainly the latter, and probably quite put out that they keep getting denied it.

If you're asking German occupation wise...its an interesting one. The germans have the power to give them luxemburg (since they also control that), and also want the dutch out of the war or on their side. So they might be collaborators, or they're super patriots willing to die for the unified monarchy/government.

Depends, I suspect, on whether the Germans favour them or their southern 'enemy' province, which would actually quite like to be maybe indepednant or autonomous within the current kingdom.
In a interesting reversal of roles, the Germans may be seeking to advance a Wallonian cause instead of a Flemish one. Many historically pro-German figures may end up being anti-German for their attempts to split the kingdom during the occupation of WWI. As for Luxembourg, Germany's own ambitions would be too great to grant it to whoever may be willing to collaborate. Historic pro-German sentiment would also be down as the whole Dutch-British-Boer issue would be much lower as it would have been "solved" so to say so there is not Dutch reason to be that anti-Anglo during WWI. The Netherlands facing Belgium's post WWI amnesty issue, except with Wallonian collaborators, would also fit with the reversal of roles tho
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
In a interesting reversal of roles, the Germans may be seeking to advance a Wallonian cause instead of a Flemish one.

If the Dutch cannot be convinced to surrender, withdraw from the war etc, yes.

And it seems they can't, so why not at least attempt to make half of it your friend?

As for Luxembourg, Germany's own ambitions would be too great to grant it to whoever may be willing to collaborate.

It's not in the OTL war goals, and I suspect the absokure limit of wargoals in the west here is perhaps a puppet duchy under a hozenhollen noble. Outright annexation is technically on the table but they don't really need or want it...it'd be another alsace Lorraine situation where you're guaranteeing the lasting enmity of a neighbour (the Netherlands) for as long as you hold it.

All the Reich's actual war goals seem to have been in the east, and this makes a lot of sense. I suspect here, it'll be mostly the same. At absolute worst, demiliterising the border regions, banning fortifications and a limited occupation for the immediate post war years of some areas etc. They're planning on building half a dozen new kingdoms and markets out east, they don't have the energy to bother too much with their 'proper European' neighbours too much.

Historic pro-German sentiment would also be down as the whole Dutch-British-Boer issue would be much lower as it would have been "solved" so to say so there is not Dutch reason to be that anti-Anglo during WWI.

That and they've been actively invaded by the germans, whilst the british have attempted to save their land, and actually saved their royal family and government. Might hate the british as the war carries on, but wouldn't be too hard to redirect it at the germans.

The Netherlands facing Belgium's post WWI amnesty issue, except with Wallonian collaborators, would also fit with the reversal of roles tho

My intial plan was Germany attempting to tear apart the Netherlands into chunks, and that's not really happened due to the Dutch actually being pretty in favour of the kingdom they have, and most of what OTL is Belgium being a fan of it too. Its only really wallonian independent movements that would be somewhat fertile ground, and that's a last resort.

As ever, the germans think they've beaten the Dutch, and want them to accept it and be neutral, or join their side. Not keep fighting from their colonial empire.
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
Pretty pictures now added to the last chapter.

Well...'pretty'.
 

J_Master

Høker
49 Badges
Oct 22, 2014
2.431
1.379
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
Is there a chance of the state in East Turkestan/Xinjiang becoming involved in WWI? It wouldn't be unlikely for Turkish figures to be involved in the setting up of the seperatist government there, but that ofcourse depends on the nature of the state, which for the map I assumed to be a East Turkestani nationalist state and not a Qing/Han Chinese governor breakaway one
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
Is there a chance of the state in East Turkestan/Xinjiang becoming involved in WWI? It wouldn't be unlikely for Turkish figures to be involved in the setting up of the seperatist government there, but that ofcourse depends on the nature of the state, which for the map I assumed to be a East Turkestani nationalist state and not a Qing/Han Chinese governor breakaway one

I think the territory is very much up in the air. Yang Zengxin is probably in charge of it, seems to be pretty secure and good at running things. Popular with Muslims, good stabilising influence, played China and Russia off each other, etc etc.

In this time line, no doubt also sends or accepts feelers from the british, possibly from the Pakistan section if they know what they're doing. Seemed to have a lot of cred with westerners for being a mandarin rather than a Republican. Was also a monarchist, pragmatist and dictator.

Still sort of part of China, but the empire is already falling apart and this is the most obvious and stable region so far as western map makers are concerned. By 1915, I expect the Emperor is dying and the warlords coming out, as well as the Republicans. For the next ten years at least, Xinjiang will probably be the only constant in China, and Manchuria I guess, if it counts.

However, it being so stable, full of Muslims and with this particular guy in charge is probably fertile soil for the british to try and influence, yes. By 1916, when the collapse is definitely underway, they'll be paying close attention to the only region that seems to be doing alright.

Probably won't do anything in ww1, but perhaps something in the Russian civil war, and certainly intrigue in the 2ps between China, Russia and Britain.
 

Bullfilter

Old Boardgame Grognard
46 Badges
Aug 31, 2008
9.054
8.894
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I went to look at the latest chapter and then realised there had been one before it, which I had missed in the welter of the subsequent in depth exchange. But I shall comment on that first, as it is perhaps the one that really brings out some of the most profound differences of this time line to ours.

it may prove to be that in time, the Spanish Empire becomes similar to the settler colonies of we British in their interconnectedness and feeling of indemnity
This is rather optimistic. One gets the impression Spain is getting the soft soap here more because it is a British ally than because of a detached and neutral appraisal.
The arrival of British industry and good relations has led to the Mexican government finally beginning to realise its own value and invest properly in building its republic up from the colonial depths of yesteryear
While this sounds more of a smug and patronising bit of patting one’s own back. Bring me the smelling salts, I’m feeling a little queasy! :D
the Mexicans would not truly be of much use against Germany. They serve a far more important purpose in keeping the Americans honest
And here we come to the great difference.
This uncouth republic that tore apart the First Empire and has hounded us ever since. This would-be empire of freedom loving slavers and capitalists.
Go on, don’t hold back! ;)
The day of reckoning will come, I think, and perhaps it shall come soon. But I pray it is not today, or tomorrow.
The interesting thing here when you compare it to OTL is that all this historical antagonism and suppression by Britain has apparently ended up depriving it of the most crucial new ally to turn the tide of the war first through indirect support and then direct intervention in the latter stages of the war. This is probably the defining geostrategic difference of the set up.
It is profoundly unclear what shall happen next in the great cycle of Chinese history, but perhaps for the first time, democracy will rise with the fall of this last emperor?
Oh, the red pill was swallowed! :p
These people may be trouble in future years. They are ambitious, industrious, and warlike, and thirst for land in a most European-style fashion that I fear they have picked up upon our worst habits.
Um, same eventual outcome as with the US in this timeline?
In all honesty, Italy would serve itself best by staying out of the war entirely, or until Austria makes a fatal mistake.
True, but that won’t stop the Evil Empire from trying to lure them in anyway.

Excellent world building to set things up before returning to the Great War action.
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
I went to look at the latest chapter and then realised there had been one before it, which I had missed in the welter of the subsequent in depth exchange

Always check your thread marks.

This is rather optimistic. One gets the impression Spain is getting the soft soap here more because it is a British ally than because of a detached and neutral appraisal.

Definitely. The speculation is more when, not if, the iberian kingdoms collapse. And will it be after the war is won or before?

While this sounds more of a smug and patronising bit of patting one’s own back. Bring me the smelling salts, I’m feeling a little queasy! :D

A mixture of 'I am such a good empire builder'

And

'my son is such a good empire builder'.

And here we come to the great difference.

Yes. Funny, isn't it.

Go on, don’t hold back! ;)

He doesn't like amercians very much. Then again, he was raised by people who had had to fight off the US twice in self defence. One of which went really badly and one of which went really well.

The interesting thing here when you compare it to OTL is that all this historical antagonism and suppression by Britain has apparently ended up depriving it of the most crucial new ally to turn the tide of the war first through indirect support and then direct intervention in the latter stages of the war. This is probably the defining geostrategic difference of the set up.

I think so. Necessary too, both to make the game interesting and because HOI4 really, really likes pitting the two against each other...and it's a pretty even fight. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

Oh, the red pill was swallowed! :p

Democracy...eventually...is the hope of a lot of these places.

Um, same eventual outcome as with the US in this timeline?

If the british continue following this branch of foreign policy, yes, if and when Japan does move against them.

And with the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain all weakened after the war, no doubt the temptation will be strong.

True, but that won’t stop the Evil Empire from trying to lure them in anyway.

Naturally. They could always use more European bodies to throw in place of their own. Also, it genuinely would take Austria out of the war against Russia, given they're already failing in the balkans and would NO DOUBT struggle against the Italian's might...
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
The Jäger War – The Battle of Cyprus New

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
The Jäger War – The Battle of Cyprus
Extract from ‘The Sublime Porte at War: The Last Gasp of the Sick Man of Europe’ by Ewan Feeler

The Ottoman entry into the war had proven explosive in more ways than one. They had taken the British entirely by surprise on land and sea, managing to launch three invasions into Persia, Egypt and Russia, and also successfully seize the island of Cyprus. The world wondered, and the Central Powers revelled, and the Entente despaired.

However, the decline of the empire was not suddenly reversed or magicked away by a few victories. Once the element of surprise wore away, the British scout planes spotted the Ottoman army well before it reached Suez. The mountains and Russian army halted the Turkish advance northwards. And whilst the Persian invasion continued, the Ottomans were never going to compete with the combined armies of Persia, Afghanistan, and India, all of which were rushing to the frontlines.

Cyprus, perhaps their ‘great’ accomplishment in the war, and the one oft pointed to by Turkish nationalists and contrarian students alike, was indicative of the genuine and terrible weakness of the Ottoman war effort. Yes, it was a black eye for the British to lose so obvious a territory to the perennially weak sultanate. Yes, technically, this was a victory of sorts for the Ottoman Navy, the only one it had in the war.

But it had thrust the Ottomans from a sideshow to a central enemy for the British to fight, and this was not a war the Turks could ever hope to win. To begin with, Cyprus was, at that time, not all that strategically important in the first place. In later decades, the advancement of aircraft and submarine warfare would indeed up the value of a sizeable island in the eastern Mediterranean. However, in 1915, the island had been of nominal importance for decades, since the ending of the Great Game in the Middle East and the capture of Egypt for British dominion. The island itself was no great naval base, it housed at the time one sizeable port, Larnaca Harbour, which served the entire island to the outside world. The British had spent the better part of a decade attempting to clean up the ancient port of Famagusta, a potentially much larger site which had been nonetheless blocked by sediment for many years.

Thus, the Ottomans held an island where both major ports were on the ‘wrong side’, facing south towards Alexandria. They also had to hold it against a far larger fleet than they possessed, and this fleet would be but a fraction of the total strength of the Royal Navy. With much of Cyprus falling in the range of the naval guns of the period (the capital itself barely out of range of the largest guns in the fleet), and the island dependant upon imports, the Turks had essentially locked up their fleet and invading army on an island they could not hope to hold or defend from British reprisal.

This appears to have been foreseen by Turkish naval planners, who argued that, if the island were to be taken, it would be necessary to have an evacuation plan in place that could be fully enacted within a 24-hour period, or less. The prestige of winning such a major prize from the British was obvious, but the wiser heads in Constantinople seemed to be under no illusions that it could be held for any length of time without losing whatever men and equipment remained, and whatever ships present to defend them.

In the end, the Battle for Cyprus was a forgone conclusion, and not a surprise to the Sultanate. Still, it is notable that this intelligence and expectation was not shared to their allies in Germany and Austria, who expected the British to be distracted for far longer with the Ottomans than they ended up being.

Extract from ‘Great British Sea Battles of the 19th and 20th centuries’, by Arthur Woodcock

The Battle of Cyprus, or more correctly, the Battle for Cyprus, as it comprised various actions on and surrounding the island, was the first major action of the Mediterranean Fleet during the Great War. It is also notable for being the first major command of Admiral Radcliffe, following his triumph and recovery from the Battle by the Norfolk Banks. It was also in this battle that Andrew Cunningham was first recognised and decorated.

pnQxlBg2j
pnef7oFnp
pm84ob9Zj

HMS Invincible, Indomitable and Inflexible

Radcliffe had been given wide powers and resources to ‘correct’ the stain to British honour that the fall of Cyprus had served as a few months prior. He requested and was granted the pre-war strength of the Mediterranean fleet, which had lost several destroyers to the Grand Fleet’s blockade efforts in 1914. In addition, he gained a few more destroyers, and the battlecruiser HMS Invincible, which had finished repairs and refits a few weeks prior. She joined her two sister ships, Inflexible and Indomitable, as the largest under Radcliffe’s command. Radcliffe also argued, and received, twenty submarines, a large portion of the Navy’s fleet, as he suspected they would be very necessary in the coming battle. The Admiralty was also nervous about the amount of damage the German U-Boats had made to the Dutch Fleet and wished to test their own forces against a fleet comprised of German and British designs.

pm0CJI4Oj

Against him was an odd assortment of vessels, some of which, unfortunately, the British had built for the Ottomans. The flagship, Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel, had been intended to be Brazil’s capital ship, and the growing nation had spared no expense with her. She possessed fourteen heavy guns and seven turrets, the most of any dreadnought on the seas. This was a heavily armed and armoured vessel. Her companion, Reşadiye, was less impressive in comparison, but was still for all that a British designed and built battleship. The Germans had added to this potent duo with the gifted SMS Goeben, renamed Yavûz Sultân Selîm, a battlecruiser that was significantly larger and better armoured than the contemporary second generation of British battlecruisers, though were still outclassed by the first generation Invincible and her sisters.

All in all, Radcliffe possessed:
  • 3 Battle cruisers – HMS Invincible, Indominable and Indefatigable
  • 3 pre-dreadnought battleships
  • 8 Cruisers
  • 5 light cruisers
  • 15 destroyers
  • 20 submarines
  • 1 minesweeper, in case of mines already deployed around the island
To contend with the entire Ottoman Fleet:
  • 2 dreadnoughts - Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel and Reşadiye
  • 1 battlecruiser - Yavûz Sultân Selîm
  • 2 pre-dreadnought battleships – Barbaros Hayreddin and Turgut Reis
  • 1 coastal defence ship - Mesûdiye
  • 2 protected cruisers – Hamidiye and Mecidiye
  • 1 light cruiser – Midilli
  • 8 destroyers
This was a supremely uneven fight, and Radcliffe believed the Ottomans knew it. His job was twofold: recapture Cyprus and destroy as much of the Ottoman fleet as possible, given that once the fleet was defeated here, it would no doubt retreat to the Black Sea for the rest of the war, which would make life difficult for the Russians. To that end, he had to know where the fleet was, and how best to draw them out or predict their movements. Upon learning how vulnerable Cyprus was to a specifically British naval invasion, Radcliffe decided that the Ottomans would have either planned an all-out defence of the two southern harbours facing out towards Alexandria or kept their ships on the far side of the island, in order to enact a swift evacuation.

His options therefore were to either blockade the entire island and force the occupation force to surrender, hopefully tempting the enemy fleet out from wherever they were hiding, or storming the southern ports, and then attempt to attack the evacuation efforts in the north.

pmsbuXSJj

Radcliffe then made use of his submarines and the British Army’s aircraft in Egypt to scout the island and was surprised to find the Ottomans seemed to have attempted both proposed strategies at once. The Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel was in port at Larnaca Harbour, with the Mesûdiye and destroyers enacting patrols around both Larnaca and Famagusta. The rest of the fleet was split between the northern side of the island and matching ports in Anatolia. That then, was where any evacuation was planned, whilst the Turks had filled the major Cypriot ports with teeth and potential blockages.

However, Radcliffe did not need usable ports. He needed the Ottomans off Cyprus.

pmvAcidmj

The calculus remained the same. He could attempt a blockade and see which if any ships attempted to sally forth to pierce it. He could attack either or both southern ports and secure the island. Or, and this was the option he decided, he could circumvent the island entirely and go after the main fleet in the north, now he knew where they were.

Splitting his forces in two, the faster ships would race up past the western coast and block the escape to the Dardanelles, whilst his other would flank the eastern coast, ensuring the Ottomans could give battle or go to ground in Anatolia. He also split up his submarines. Five each would monitor the southern ports and engage anything that moved from them. He was wary of the Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel and her guns, but a few torpedo hits were now known to shake even a battleship. The remaining ten would lie in wait in the path towards the Dardanelles and ‘safety’, in case any ships did manage to escape or had already left before the battle began. He had more than enough destroyers to screen his heavy ships, and enough firepower to confidently take on everything the Ottomans had, now he knew the two modern dreadnoughts were not sailing together.

poMgE0NGj

On the evening of the 15th September 1915, Radcliffe and his fleet were ready. They would set out under cover of darkness in the early hours of the morning, to avoid detection before they were already at Cyprus. As it was, the British ships were spotted only as they had already split off from each other and were encircling the island, causing the Ottoman response to be confused as to where or even if an attack was coming. By the time they had confirmation that there was indeed not one, but two British flotillas incoming, they were almost out of time. The dreadnought Reşadiye, the battlecruiser Yavûz Sultân Selîm and the two old battleships were clustered together, and so could be made ready for some kind of fight, but the rest of the fleet was separated into various ports, docks and moorings. They had not expected to be the main target of an attack.

In the pre-dawn light, the two British groups rounded their respective coasts and made speed to meet in the middle. Between them, the trapped core of the Ottoman fleet had to decide whether to attempt to fight through the approaching western group and flee to the Dardanelles and on to the Black Sea, abandoning Cyprus and the Ottoman garrison there, or stand, fight, and hope the Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel and her destroyers would return to help them out. Deciding discretion was the better part of valour, the Turkish commanders decided to rush the western ships, hoping they could break through.

pnNzrfnij

It was a brave decision, but a costly one. Abandoning their smaller ships in port, the capital ships raced towards the waiting British vessels, whom upon sighting, opened fire. By the time the eastern group arrived on the scene, the Yavûz Sultân Selîm was ablaze and listing heavily to port, and the two pre-dreadnought battleships were badly damaged. Only the Reşadiye had escaped much harm and was slowly gaining a lead on the destroyers that were in pursuit.

Then they hit the submarine line. In turning to avoid three torpedoes, they hit two more, which allowed the HMS Scorpion, itself close enough to have to dodge torpedoes, to fire three shots which destroyed the bridge and bow of the ship. Whilst the battleship limped on, further shots from the submarines and the Scorpion took out the steering and engines, before the ship finally rolled over and exploded.

pncyh9rwj

The core of the Ottoman Navy had been sunk in a few hours work, at the cost of one destroyer, HMS Aurora, which was outright rammed by the frantic Turkish ships. Radcliffe’s battlecruisers took a turn about the northern coastline of Cyprus, managing to catch two further ships attempting to make a run for safety, whilst the rest of the ship shadowed the Anatolian coast, looking to do much the same but finding few takers. What they did find was that the defences became increasingly fearsome the closer they came to the Dardanelles, and the submarines confirmed there were plentiful mines in the seas all around the area. The Black Sea was firmly locked up tight by the Ottomans.

Returning back to the island in force, by which time it had passed into early afternoon, Radcliffe signalled left a holding force on the north side whilst his main fleet returned to the south. By now, the garrison on the island was aware something had gone very wrong, and the northern units had seen part of the battle off the coast. As for the Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel and her destroyers, they were now trapped in the two harbours they happened to be in when the British showed up, save for the two that had already been caught on the open water and sank.

Now with all the time in the world, Radcliffe signalled the battleship to surrender and prepare to be boarded, which received no response. He also sent word to Alexandria of his success, and to prepare troops for landing on the island. If the Ottomans did not surrender, five landing sites across the island had already been chosen for amphibious landings, and with the support of heavy naval firepower, the limited Ottoman garrison could do some damage, but not hope to prevail. It was now a matter of when they decided to give up, and how many lives would be lost before that happened.

The Battle for Cyprus was not as impactful or spectacular as the Broad Fourteens or Norfolk Banks, but it was actually an incredibly significant learning experience for the Royal Navy. The use of aviation for scouting, submarines and destroyers working in tandem, and the proven value of a battlecruiser’s speed and flexibility when contending with dreadnoughts were all first combined here. It marked a return to British dominion over the Mediterranean for the rest of the war, and the decade. It made the careers of several young officers, not least of which was Commander Cunningham, captaining the Scorpion. His actions earnt a grilling from Radcliffe and a promotion to Captain.

The later amphibious landings and their aftermath also taught the British valuable, albeit somewhat costly, lessons about how to plan and execute them, and that a determined defender with means of resupply and reinforcement would be extremely difficult to displace from a landing sight without the element of surprise and hefty amounts of supporting firepower from naval guns. This was reinforced when Radcliffe later also stormed Rhodes, a defeat which stunned the Ottomans and pinned a sizeable defence force on the opposite mainland for the rest of the war. Much as the army was learning, slowly, defence was king in this new era of modern warfare.

Excerpt from ‘The First World War’, by Martin Gilbert

The Autumn Offensives carried out against the Ottoman Empire were notable in that they were, unlike every other attack carried out by Entente forces up to that point, fairly successful in achieving their objectives whilst also regaining the initiative along their fronts.

poNw8DM5j
pm4PtnsHj

On the Russian frontier, the Ottomans had seen some further success south of the Terek River, but continued to fail to gain any ground along the Caspian Sea. This would prove problematic for them, as further south, the British were on the march.

pmKlyg8Gj
pogWdmmNj
pmGIVmuoj



In Persia, the Ottomans were finally halted and pushed back by the Indian army, with aid from Persia and Afghanistan forces. By the end of the year, they would have even advanced into the Sultanate itself, with hopes for a meeting of Russian lines thought possible before the Turks managed to curtail that thrust. The fact they were capable of doing such belies such talk that the fall of Cyprus and Rhodes marked the end of true military competence of the Ottomans.
pospz2uYj

It also no doubt added credence to the need for an Arab Revolt, the rumblings of which had been favourably stoked by the successful advance of the advance of the Egyptian army through the desert and into the Levant. With the Ottomans in retreat, but fighting hard every step of the way, the British forces became emboldened across the world, and doubly so when German East Africa formally surrendered, despite the German guerrilla army still fighting in the bush.

After a year and a half of heavy fighting, it looked as though the British might win the war outside Europe after all.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
Reactions:

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
Not remotely happy with this chapter, aside from ensuring the big monster dreadnought of the period didn't actually get into a shooting march, as is required by the maritime laws of big Battleships.
 

J_Master

Høker
49 Badges
Oct 22, 2014
2.431
1.379
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
The Ottomans actually reaching this far on the Caucasus front is bound to have some very long lasting effects. All the Islamic people's there will likely welcome the Turks as liberation from the Russians, which I can see quickly turning into a more powerfull state there during the RCW. The conquest of Azerbaijan will also no doubt bolster pan-Turkic/Turanist elements within the Ottoman government and it will be interesting to see how that will influence post WWI Turkey.

I was also considering Japanese intervention in WWI, which Britain can still call upon, but Germany doesn't have that many colonies that could be awarded to them, just Qingdao really. But that also got me thinking, since the Russo-Japanese War ended in such a more solid victory for Japan (they actually get to keep the Liaodong Peninsula) and with Manchuria already detached from Beijing and no doubt under the Japanese sphere of influence, how would its political sphere develop in the Interbellum?
On the Russian frontier, the Ottomans had seen some further success south of the river, but continued to fail to gain any ground along the Caspian Sea. This would prove problematic for them, as further south, the British were on the march.
That's the Terek River btw, a mention of the name would look a little better imo
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
I wasn't particularly happy with this chapter, but the ottoman invasions are interesting in a post war way.

The Ottomans actually reaching this far on the Caucasus front is bound to have some very long lasting effects. All the Islamic people's there will likely welcome the Turks as liberation from the Russians, which I can see quickly turning into a more powerfull state there during the RCW. The conquest of Azerbaijan will also no doubt bolster pan-Turkic/Turanist elements within the Ottoman government and it will be interesting to see how that will influence post WWI Turkey.

It's one thing Turkey will have going for it during the war and post war, because everywhere else is a mess already and not going to get better. The Arabs of course are going to be hostile, the rest of the Middle East is british, the Greeks are breathing down their necks in western anatolia, and they've also recognised the Kurds as a potential ally in getting what they want.

I was also considering Japanese intervention in WWI, which Britain can still call upon, but Germany doesn't have that many colonies that could be awarded to them, just Qingdao really. But that also got me thinking, since the Russo-Japanese War ended in such a more solid victory for Japan (they actually get to keep the Liaodong Peninsula) and with Manchuria already detached from Beijing and no doubt under the Japanese sphere of influence, how would its political sphere develop in the Interbellum?

Well, Japan helped out as per usual with cleaning up the german colonies and ships, which means they'll get their beaks wet with a few more islands to the south, which no doubt pleases and irritates them to varying degrees.

I imagine the post war period sees Japan turn away from the moving sea of islands and chaotic European empires as more trouble than they're worth (unless the british leave or are weakened, they know they won't be getting anywhere), in favour of China rolling onto its back and dying, with no Russia in sight to stop them.

Manchuria will be invested into, brought to heel and perhaps expanded. No doubt they will also attempt various economic and miltiary options into China proper too.

I don't think they'll go into silesia, or very far into it anyway, given how hard it would be compared to China, but it depends on the Russian civil war. Given that eventually, Russia will recover and become a GP again, that would be playing with fire however, though they don't know that yet obviously.

That's the Terek River btw, a mention of the name would look a little better imo

Thanks!
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
I went to look at the latest chapter and then realised there had been one before it, which I had missed in the welter of the subsequent in depth exchange.

And now you are two down again. The rate of pace in these AARs tries to maintain a respectable median between your lightning reactions and Pip's graceful plodding. Though lately, I fear I have gotten faster than I should, which is a matter of great concern.
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

J_Master

Høker
49 Badges
Oct 22, 2014
2.431
1.379
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
It's one thing Turkey will have going for it during the war and post war, because everywhere else is a mess already and not going to get better. The Arabs of course are going to be hostile, the rest of the Middle East is british, the Greeks are breathing down their necks in western anatolia, and they've also recognised the Kurds as a potential ally in getting what they want.
The Kurds are a mixed bag really, as it's going to end up making a bunch of problems with the Arabs and the Persians, but a potent means to batter the Turks with nonetheless.
Well, Japan helped out as per usual with cleaning up the german colonies and ships, which means they'll get their beaks wet with a few more islands to the south, which no doubt pleases and irritates them to varying degrees.

I imagine the post war period sees Japan turn away from the moving sea of islands and chaotic European empires as more trouble than they're worth (unless the british leave or are weakened, they know they won't be getting anywhere), in favour of China rolling onto its back and dying, with no Russia in sight to stop them.

Manchuria will be invested into, brought to heel and perhaps expanded. No doubt they will also attempt various economic and miltiary options into China proper too.

I don't think they'll go into silesia, or very far into it anyway, given how hard it would be compared to China, but it depends on the Russian civil war. Given that eventually, Russia will recover and become a GP again, that would be playing with fire however, though they don't know that yet obviously.
As far as I remember, it was the US that was the main power pressuring Japan to abandon their Far Eastern intervention. It may require a show of force from whatever Russian power comes about to force the Japanese to abandon their hold over the Amur region and Buryatia. And, ofcourse, a Red victory may bolster the Japanese backed state there as a White exile haven.
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
The Kurds are a mixed bag really, as it's going to end up making a bunch of problems with the Arabs and the Persians, but a potent means to batter the Turks with nonetheless.

It'll be an interesting one. Obviously, the Greeks will want the turk successor state as weak as possible, as will the russians. But the Arabs, Persians and their British masters would prefer this can of works were never opened in regards to actually giving the Kurds a homeland.

However, Greece might be just about strong enough after a Turkish war to ignore the British...especially if the French back them up.

As far as I remember, it was the US that was the main power pressuring Japan to abandon their Far Eastern intervention. It may require a show of force from whatever Russian power comes about to force the Japanese to abandon their hold over the Amur region and Buryatia. And, ofcourse, a Red victory may bolster the Japanese backed state there as a White exile haven.

Given the russians will eventually serve as the counter balance to western Europe, and the Empires of the Pacific, everyone will be wary of poking the bear once the country stabilises.

That said, the US has no presence in the Pacific or far east, and is not going to be in a postion, short of outright attacking it, to limit the size of the Royal Navy. So of the powers Japan have to think about, they will be thinking about Russia (eventually), the Chinese successor states, and the British.

In terms of white russians, the OTL wars really hit them quite hard, up to and inckuding the royal family. More of them escaping/thriving is possible, even if they don't win the resultant war.
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
Moving into the second half of 1915...not much will happen I expect, just looking at plans and notes. Western front is now going to be solid on both sides due to the germans being dug in, and the Entente having French, British, Spanish and Portuguese armies to work with.

What we will probably see is the british start really planning offensives and ideas now their empire is really starting to gear up. 1916 OTL is the year the Entente start to 'win' in terms of war efforts, supplies, tech etc. Indeed, Germany would have collapsed had they not discovered the haber process.

Much better situation ITTL, but all their advantages are spent by this point. Nothing but a long and (hopefully) managed decline in capacity and capability, unless something big changes.

Thus, expect a lot of British side meetings and arguments about 'lessons learnt' in Cyprus, the western front etc. Meanwhile, the germans are trying to get the Austrians to do something useful, whilst the Austrians themselves are trying to resolve the balkans (things never bloody change).

If they can manage something between them, they'll enter 1916 with a much better hand in the east, to make up for a weaker hand in the west.

Meanwhile, any ottoman fans will be delighted to know they are continuing to hog screen time, if only because there's more movement and action on both sides. British invasions, the Arab revolt, the D word, all the classics.

Latter half of 1915:
Everyone is now stuck with this war, time to figure out what to do about it!
 

J_Master

Høker
49 Badges
Oct 22, 2014
2.431
1.379
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
Thus, expect a lot of British side meetings and arguments about 'lessons learnt' in Cyprus, the western front etc. Meanwhile, the germans are trying to get the Austrians to do something useful, whilst the Austrians themselves are trying to resolve the balkans (things never bloody change).
May honestly be overstated from what I've heard be said. Take it with a grain of salt, but Von Hotzendorf may have been a actually rather forward looking commander who just had to deal with a shit industrial base never measuring up to what he needed.
If they can manage something between them, they'll enter 1916 with a much better hand in the east, to make up for a weaker hand in the west.
The only thing really able to get them to do better is to somehow be able to get Ukraine to start producing grain for them, and I highly doubt they'd be able to do that.
the D word
The Dutch word? Ah yes, the Siege of Vagina in Southern Iraq
 

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
May honestly be overstated from what I've heard be said. Take it with a grain of salt, but Von Hotzendorf may have been a actually rather forward looking commander who just had to deal with a shit industrial base never measuring up to what he needed.

If they can move on from Serbia and focus fully on fighting Russia, they'll be doing well. As it is, we have the Austrians still fighting in their back garden.

As we've previously discussed though, there are potential friends in the balkans. The Austrians just have to prove they'll actually be capable of backing their offers up. Bascially, Serbia goes down, and the balkans goes from a dead end to a new begining.

The only thing really able to get them to do better is to somehow be able to get Ukraine to start producing grain for them, and I highly doubt they'd be able to do that.

I doubt Germany will get that far before winter. Though the goal is clear at this point: defeat Russia and quickly and easily as possible, because the western front is going to be a nightmare for both sides going forwards.
 

HistoryDude

Emperor of Greece and Rome and Holy Roman Emperor
39 Badges
Mar 19, 2018
4.734
3.780
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
Well, I'm catching up on HoI4 AARs now. This looks interesting, and I liked the prologue! It really set the mood of World War I...

The war looks great so far - the Netherlands is occupied, both Africa and Russia appear defended, and France is trapped in a stalemate. It's the perfect position to establish an imperial fall from grace. Even with Cyprus, the war in Europe seems fine for Germany...

The Nineteenth Century appears to have changed a lot. What is it based on? A Victoria 2 game?

I imagine that Britain will come to regret being so harsh on the United States, given that the US's intervention arguably prolonged the war enough to allow Germany to collapse internally... and that economic result was very good for the Germans. Hindsight shouldn't speak well of this move.

Oh, the divisions within families that the war is affecting! That update tugs at the heartstrings - good job.

As for the "provide recommendations" bit... a worse Russian Civil War, maybe? I'm really interested in seeing how all of this change affected Russia in the long term - I can't imagine that the civil war would be better than OTL.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
54 Badges
Mar 4, 2016
8.246
15.025
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
This looks interesting, and I liked the prologue! It really set the mood of World War I...

Yes, I think I did well to keep it moving and pressing throughout the first year of war. A lot changed between August and December 1914, and moreso TTL in the early months of 1915.

The war looks great so far - the Netherlands is occupied,

Yes.

both Africa and Russia appear defended,

Mm. East Africa has more troops from German South Africa, but Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck is still forced to run a guerilla war, and will certainly lose the territory on the map soon enough.

That doesn't mean his army is stopped though, it just means they have nowhere safe to rest and resupply. Depending on how the british handle things, he could be around for as long as the war lasts, as per OTL, or be captured/killed/surrender.

Russia meanwhile had their OTL triumph and OTL backslide as soon as the germans really show up to fight back. The surprise ottoman invasion hasn't helped. They can keep the turks from getting anywhere past the mountains and river, but it's still hundreds of thousands of men and guns desperately needed to defend Russia itself.

Russian Poland is in the process of being 'liberated', and if the Austrians show up, they'll be plenty of hurt coming Russia's way.

and France is trapped in a stalemate.

France itself is in a worse state than OTL, to the point that if it were just them, they'd probably be caving about now similar to the Franco prussian war, or have already lost some time ago. Their Eastern industrial base is mostly ruined or under German control, Paris remains within artillery range, and the French army is exhausted after being on the defensive for an entire year.

But the germans are equally worn out, having rammed repeatedly against French defences all that time.

Even with Cyprus, the war in Europe seems fine for Germany...

Pretty much. Better than OTL anyway. However, the general recognition that the western front has probably passed from being winnable will begin to travel round high command and everywhere else soon enough. The war in the east is another matter, and should they win there, there remains some hope in the west.

The Nineteenth Century appears to have changed a lot. What is it based on? A Victoria 2 game?

Not really. Just my alt history theorising based on an initial premise of the PM Radclife (the first Duke of London) changing the way the british went about the latter part of the Napoleonic wars, and much of how the british conducted themsevles miltiary and diplomatically for several decades in the early 19th century.

And a desire for the map to produce scenarios that would play to HoI4s strengths and baises.

I imagine that Britain will come to regret being so harsh on the United States

From their point of view, the amercians started this. First with the revolution, then the war of 1812. Of course, the US would contend they first defeated a tyrannical government, then fought a war to remove that empire from their border entirely.

A century of ill feeling followed, and to be honest, the difference from OTL for the most part (aside from territory) is the attitude between the two remained consistently antagonistic, rather than running hot and cold OTL. It was only in the early 20th century OTL that both sides start to view the other favourably, and not until after ww2 that most differences are resolved.

given that the US's intervention arguably prolonged the war enough to allow Germany to collapse internally... and that economic result was very good for the Germans. Hindsight shouldn't speak well of this move.

It's not really a deliberate move by this point, just reality. Of course the amercians can't be trusted, look at last x number of years etc. Obviously they won't help us, and they could easily help Germany.

Better take steps to avoid that. Etc

Oh, the divisions within families that the war is affecting! That update tugs at the heartstrings - good job.

Yeah, so this happened OTL as well, and very awkward it must have been too. The noble families of europe have inter bred for centuries of course but the generations under Victoria were obviously very attached and interlinked, up to and inckuding Royalty and heads of state.

Due to the war, a lot of them will be wiped out, literally or economically, and the remainder are separated from each other by the trauma of the whole affair.

As for the "provide recommendations" bit... a worse Russian Civil War, maybe? I'm really interested in seeing how all of this change affected Russia in the long term - I can't imagine that the civil war would be better than OTL.

It's probably going to be worse. Possibly much worse, since I suspect it will involve Scandinavia, Germany, possibly other central powers, a whole bunch of independence movements, the Polish legions, and, once the world war is over, the Entente as well.

Russia is going to be a bloodbath in all sorts of ways. Got some good chapters coming up about them.

Thanks very much for your comments. Always nice to see more from readers. Mostly a few regulars at the moment otherwise, welcome and valued as they are.