tolerance to heritics/hethans?

[IZob]

Hi

Just wondering if anyone can tell me, is "tolerance to heretics and heathens" ideas put into the game, because I noticed they are not mentioned in the national ideas?

My guess is maybe instead of as ideas, they are both more related to the government type a nation uses (ie: a republic could be more tolerant then an empire?) and the nations state religion also has an effect?

Also is Plutocracy a national idea set? EU4 wiki says it is but I haven't seen this in a game screen shot or video.

Thanks!

 

[stilgarpl]

Poland and Ottomans have it in National Ideas, but I'm sure there is at least one idea group with those modifiers.

 

[IZob]

I hope so. Being tolerant shouldn't be limited what religion or government being used. They can be exclusive.

 

[Zarine]

I hope so. Being tolerant shouldn't be limited what religion or government being used. They can be exclusive.

EU4 wiki

Here you have in Religion : Devoutness +1 Tolerance of the True faith
Plutocracy : Humanist Tolerance Tolerance of Heathens +2
Which is outside the national ideas.

 

[spyroware1]

May I ask what tolerance does? In EU4 there's no population/pop growth so no help there. Revolt Risk mostly rests at it minimum value so having that bonus reduction from tolerance means little when you'd want it. So it looks like that playing a tolerant country will give no noticeable benefit :S

 

[Dutchling]

It's useful when you have low stability and high WE I guess.

I think in eu3 it affected taxes as well.

 

[Zarine]

May I ask what tolerance does? In EU4 there's no population/pop growth so no help there. Revolt Risk mostly rests at it minimum value so having that bonus reduction from tolerance means little when you'd want it. So it looks like that playing a tolerant country will give no noticeable benefit :S

Revolt risk when you conquer things?
If I take EU3 case, you conquer something of the wrong religion, you have a +9 (is it 9?) revolt risk from nationalism and +X for wrong culture, +X from wrong religion, +X from war exhaustion... all adds up to something higher than the 9 minimum.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

EU4 wiki

Here you have in Religion : Devoutness +1 Tolerance of the True faith
Plutocracy : Humanist Tolerance Tolerance of Heathens +2
Which is outside the national ideas.

Might the wiki be outdated? Looking at quill18´s preview videos showing of the ideas the plutocracy tree is not in.

[video=youtube;r_1F4BesSsE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_1F4BesSsE[/video]

[video=youtube;mRU2kTvzlMo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRU2kTvzlMo[/video]

 

[fingalum]

My guess is that Plutocracy and Aristocracy are mutually exclusive, if you start as a Republic you have Plutocracy and Aristocracy as a monarchy.

 

[Cymsdale]

My guess is that Plutocracy and Aristocracy are mutually exclusive, if you start as a Republic you have Plutocracy and Aristocracy as a monarchy.

I don't believe any of the groups are mutually exclusive. You can take whatever ones you want.

 

[Meneth]

I don't believe any of the groups are mutually exclusive. You can take whatever ones you want.

Being able to take "aristocracy" as a merchant republic would essentially be nonsense, so it would make sense for those two groups to be mutually exclusive.

From DD#6: "There are sixteen possible idea groups you can choose from in EU4, each with seven different ideas in them, and a bonus. They are Plutocracy, Aristocracy"
I have no idea what the source for the individual ideas within the Plutocracy tree were though.

 

[stilgarpl]

Being able to take "aristocracy" as a merchant republic would essentially be nonsense, so it would make sense for those two groups to be mutually exclusive.

From DD#6: "There are sixteen possible idea groups you can choose from in EU4, each with seven different ideas in them, and a bonus. They are Plutocracy, Aristocracy"
I have no idea what the source for the individual ideas within the Plutocracy tree were though.

Maybe they just change the name "Plutocracy" to "Trade ideas"?

 

[Meneth]

Maybe they just change the name "Plutocracy" to "Trade ideas"?

That would make 15 ideas. They specifically said 16.
Plutocracy and aristocracy are opposites in reality, and aristocracy in a republic doesn't make sense. So most likely you get one or the other available in the military tree depending on your government type.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Being able to take "aristocracy" as a merchant republic would essentially be nonsense, so it would make sense for those two groups to be mutually exclusive.

England or the USA (before the Industrial Revolution and Civil War destroyed the planter class) could both easily have aristocracy and plutocracy, as could Tuscany or a united Germany/HRE. There are probably more successful businessmen in the modern British House of Lords than in the House of Commons.

Plutocracy and aristocracy are opposites in reality, and aristocracy in a republic doesn't make sense.

Plutocracy and aristocracy are not opposites, they have to be forced apart by rules against aristocrats being merchants and merchants buying titles like in Poland.

There were plenty of aristocratic republics. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the southern American states, most of the Latin American republics for their early history, the Roman Republic in classical times, Cromwell's English Commonwealth, the Junker stranglehold that continued in parts of Weimar Germany etc

 

[Meneth]

Plutocracy and aristocracy are not opposites, they have to be forced apart by rules against aristocrats being merchants and merchants buying titles like in Poland.

There were plenty of aristocratic republics. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the southern American states, most of the Latin American republics for their early history, the Roman Republic in classical times, Cromwell's English Commonwealth, the Junker stranglehold that continued in parts of Weimar Germany etc

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was not a republic; it was an elective monarchy for most of its lifetime (and a hereditary monarchy for a short part of it).

Aristocracy in the context of EU4 seems to refer purely to actual nobles, which generally don't exist in the republican form of government.
Aristocracy in the context of EU4 refers to power by virtue of birth, while plutocracy is power by virtue of wealth (though wealth is of course often a result of birth).
As such they are mutually exclusive since you can't have the leaders both be based purely on birth and purely on wealth.

Edit:
There are two definitions of aristocracy:

1. The highest class in certain societies, esp. those holding hereditary titles or offices.
2. A form of government in which power is held by the nobility.

Paradox are clearly using the second, which is mutually exclusive to plutocracy.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

A form of government in which power is held by the nobility.

Paradox are clearly using the second, which is mutually exclusive to plutocracy.

They aren't clearly using the second, since ideas and government types are completely different things.

Countries don't have to be black and white and only favour one social class. EU3's sliders are dead and gone, aristocracy doesn't represent weakening the merchants anymore because ideas don't give penalties like sliders used to.

 

[Meneth]

They aren't clearly using the second, since ideas and government types are completely different things.

Countries don't have to be black and white and only favour one social class. EU3's sliders are dead and gone, aristocracy doesn't represent weakening the merchants anymore because ideas don't give penalties like sliders used to.

Seeing as they've seen fit to make aristocracy and plutocracy mutually exclusive...