ToH2: The Olympian Rebirth - Discussion Thread

[Rezag]

AAR up how things can end up fast due few words .

 

[Swuul]

Sparta seems to run out of potential targets for operations, as they all seem to come to senses after some discussions. Well, not quite all of course, there is still this one Iberian hero who refuses to talk at all, and another Iberian hero who keeps failing to provide a simple apology.

We live in interesting times.

 

[Avernite]

Said Iberian hero does not believe in simplicity, and has made several quite clear apologies. What is there that he hasn't apologized for?

Surely Leonidas could comprehend that a mistaken memory could be classified as a faulty one, and thus as a mental handicap. However, for the nasty connotations of that wording, Pelops modified his statement regarding such....

So, what is it that Leonidas wants? What value has simplicity that an explained apology has not?

 

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

I would appreciate an update, from either GM, regarding my...... "situation".

If I'm not on ICQ feel free to send a PM.

 

[Swuul]

mental handicap

And there he goes again...

 

[Avernite]

all the selective quoting.

I was dicussing the 'purely hypothetical' case where someone has a faulty memory. Surely, it is a handicap, and a mental one, at that?

 

[Swuul]

I was dicussing the 'purely hypothetical' case where someone has a faulty memory. Surely, it is a handicap, and a mental one, at that?

Hypothetically, if you had offended somebody with faulty accusations, surely a simple apology would be in place? If unsure how Leonidas defines a simple apology, take a look at the apology Leonidas sent to Hector.

 

[unmerged(11031)]

One other point that needs clarifying, you don't need to cast a spell to get your leader back. So long as you're in good standing with your patron it is automatic. Same goes for your home temple. You DO have to mention it in your orders though.

Regarding AAR's, Jarkko and Avernite get 2% taken off their inflation, and Peter has it in his power to grant the same bonus to two others... I wonder who the lucky ones will be . I assume that was your question jarkko?

Great now I am going to have to write amazing AAR's.... I really need that inflation lowered.

 

[Avernite]

If the accusations were faulty instead of only slightly wrong, surely a SIMPLE apology could work.

If however the accusations were not entirely true, but there was a core of truth somewhere, or if apologizing might give people wrong ideas, an EXPLAINED apology is better...

 

[Swuul]

Great now I am going to have to write amazing AAR's.... I really need that inflation lowered.

Excellent! We are still a bit short on AAR's (except for the Peloponnesian AAR's which seem to pop up like mushrooms after rain ), aren't we?

 

[Swuul]

If however the accusations were not entirely true, but there was a core of truth somewhere, or if apologizing might give people wrong ideas, an EXPLAINED apology is better...

Person1 "You are an idiot!"
Person2 "Huh? That wasn't nice."
Person1 "Ok, I am sorry I called you an idiot even though you are one."
Person2 "That is an apology?"
Person1 "Well yes, you *are* an idiot. I said you are an idiot for which I am sorry, but that does not make you less of an idiot."

 

[Avernite]

Actually, it's like:

Person 1:
"you did X"
Person 2:
"It is sad indeed when Person 1 lies"
Person 1:
"Bwahaha, unfair! I didn't lie!"
Person 2:
"Ok, you didn't lie, and I apologize. But you were wrong anyhow."
Person 1:
"Bwahaha, unfair! I want simple apologies!"
Person 2:
"I apologize for saying Person 1 lied, but I do maintain you were wrong."
Person 1:
"I want simple apologies, otherwise I'll ruin some nation."


Sounds a bit different, no? But if Leonidas apologizes for suggesting Pelops broke his word, Pelops will apologize for suggesting Leonidas lied. An explanation for the apology would then no longer be needed.

 

[Wyvern]

Orders still needed for:

Leonidas
Theseus
Autolycos
Odysseus
Heracles
[edit]
and Midas

 

[Swuul]

But if Leonidas apologizes for suggesting Pelops broke his word, Pelops will apologize for suggesting Leonidas lied. An explanation for the apology would then no longer be needed.

Where did Leonidas suggest Pelops broke his word?

 

[Swuul]

Orders still needed for:
Leonidas

Ah rats, it is Wednesday already. I won't be home until about 19 CET today... Luckily the save is available so that I can check the id's

Orders for Leonidas (cause Leonidas has nothing to hide )

1) Pray Leonidas back from the lands of Hades and the Temple of Ares back to New Sparta (location 370).

2) The temple that was built in location 352 is dedicated to Pallas Athene. If possible, I'd like to rename the city of 352 to "Pallas" (from "Pallas Athene" of course, but also sort of an inside joke that all the finns noticing the name now during the skiing season will find hilarious beyond belief... or not )

3) Prayers, Sparta has three temples, and is thus entitled to two level 1 blessings and one level 2 blessing.
1st level (Ares) "Warrior code" +1 MIL to Leonidas
1st level (Artemis) "Rite of fertility" +5% population to Salzburg (ie add 481.45 people to province id 350, for a new population of 10110.456)
2nd level (Athene) "Summon hero" m3 f2 s3 called "Polynikes"

4) AAR bonus; -2 to inflation (unless Peter in his allmighty wisdom *also* finds Spartan AAR's worthy, in which case of course apply -4 to inflation)

5) Location 464 (Kaffa) now has 2/3 of its population with Spartan origin, but its culture does not (yet) show that If possible, please rename the city to "Pleistarkhopolis" (in honour of the great son of Leonidas). If wondering what culture Sparta has, it is "german".

 

[Avernite]

It seems Pelops has decided to break a promise to Sparta (Pelops is now claiming he never actually promised anything, but has been considering things and matters). That is rather unfortunate. One could say *very* unfortunate.

This does seem like suggesting i broke my word, or more accurately a promise. One might even be excused for thinking he directly said so, but as he used the word seems I have very carefully used the word suggested.

edit: ok, I used the wrong syntax for quoting, but if you look on page 19(?) you'll see he did say that.

 

[Swuul]

This does seem like suggesting i broke my word, or more accurately a promise. One might even be excused for thinking he directly said so, but as he used the word seems I have very carefully used the word suggested.

If the sentence had been "it seems Pelops has broken", then one could perhaps understand the attacks of Pelops. But as it was written "it seems Pelops has decided", all that would have been required would have been for Pelops to say "No, I have not decided". Alas, that was not what happened, but Pelops chose to attack Leonidas instead.


Leonidas is not comfortable at being on the defensive. That is what the loss rate (attritio/casualties) show too: Leonidas attacks the offenders. If that suits Pelops, then so mote it be; if not, he knows how to avoid the problems.

 

[Avernite]

Pelops did say so, but then Leonidas in private discussion insisted. He used the same type of wording twice, and kept insisting after Pelops denied it.
(as can be seen from the quote, he allready knew at the time that Pelops denied it, and still made it public)

 

[Swuul]

Pelops did say so, but then Leonidas in private discussion insisted. He used the same type of wording twice, and kept insisting after Pelops denied it.
(as can be seen from the quote, he allready knew at the time that Pelops denied it, and still made it public)

Leonidas has not attacked Pelops, like Pelops did. Leonidas is fully capable of attacking, and as has been said already a few times, the matter will be settled on the field. Until that (or until Pelops finally admits his attack was way over the top and provides a simple apology) Leonidas will not speak of this matter any more.



Oh, btw. If anybody has demands on Peloponnesian lands, they should make their demands public *now*. Sparta is not after any Peloponnesian lands, just asking Pelops to provide a simple apology, and Leonidas *will not* tolerate anybody interfering in a Midean style and make sudden land demands from Peloponnesus (unless they make clear their demands and reasons *now*) when Pelops and Leonidas are on their knees strangling each other.

 

[Avernite]

Leonidas: It seems he intends to break his promise, even though he denies it.
.
.
.
Leonidas: If only he had denied it, all would be good.

Does anyone still get the point? I even understand FAL better....