Together for Victory: How can the Commonwealth be improved? Decrease variance?

[billcorr]

• How can the Commonwealth Nations be improved?
  
  
  The purpose of this thread is to highlight the variance within the UK and the Commonwealth Nations. These differences may or may not need to be made consistent with each other. What do you think?

The HoI4 downloadable content, "Together For Victory" tells a story about the British Commonwealth, a vast empire with different peoples and cultures.

Here are some examples of the variety of Commonwealth Values:

The initial stability ranges from 95% stability for New Zealand to 54% for Malaya. If anyone has insights regarding the game design rules for assigning initial stability, please feel free to share your insights.

At the start of the 1936 Scenario, War Support throughout the Empire varies nation by nation. Credit to @afrostb @afb for pointing this out. Note that the Pacific rim nations are the most bellicose.

The starting number of research slots for the Commonwealth varies between 2 and 4. For better game balance, ENG might be given more starting research slots in order to prosecute the war against the Euro + Asian Axis members. Alternatively, ENG could be given more than 1 additional research slot through its focuses.

AST's +10% industrial research bonus is at odds with the remainder of the Commonwealth bonuses. The developers upped the research bonuses a few DLCs ago (Waking the Tiger?). For some reason, AST did not get the universal boost (I think Norway was similarly overlooked).

Malaya is not part of the Commonwealth Research Group. ENG, CAN, SAF, RAJ , AST and NZL are part of the Commonwealth Research Group.

With the exception of Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland, ENG may not release nations unless it completes the appropriate national focus. SAF, RAJ, AST are allowed to release nations without completing any national focuses. Even New Zealand is allowed to release a nation (Samoa). But not England, unless England chooses a specific National Focus path.

• The designers implemented two different game design rules to achieve the same effect.

The number of dockyards gifted by national focuses varies by nations. Canada receives 6. NZL and RAJ receive 2 dockyards.

Similarly, there is a variety of Military and Civilian factories that can be gained through national focuses. 15 military factories for Canada (did I add them up correctly?) and as few as 3MIC for Australia and Malaya.

Together for Victory is a DLC that describes the coming together of all the Commonwealth to fight a common enemy. As part of that effort, the DLC seeks to represent minorities. Australia has a Women in the Military focus and South Africa, Canada, India, and New Zealand enlist the aid of marginalized communities to come together to fight the Axis.

In summary, the Together for Victory showcases the Commonwealth nations and the variety of features the characterize each nation.

• How can the Commonwealth Nations be improved?
  
  
  

 

[Cpt.Cross]

For a Start, I would suggest not locking alot of their focuses behind World Tension.

Canada has to choose between having poor manpower or poor industry. This needs to change,

India has manpower issues lmao! but seriously it has poor industry focuses and you are waiting till the Sino-Japanese war before you can start making a dent in its political path. I like that you can trade autonomy for factories but i wish you got more. It has the only CAS genius in the game with no industry to make use of it.

Australia might do the best out of all of em with solid choices can even puppet indonesia. only issue is WT focuses.

New Zealand is great for what it is. Was never gonna be a world power but staying democratic and getting the islands from the other democratic powers and making Polynesia is a great play.

and Malaya is just there with no focuses and the most valuable state in the game. Needs a focus tree of some kind.

South Africa is pretty solid except you cant declare independence when democratic for some reason, you can get early advanced Subs and are positioned well to make use of them. might be one of those few countries where the commie path is the best play. Would only suggest that the south west africa region would have building slots to allow it to get a bit more industry.

 

[billcorr]

New Zealand is great for what it is. Was never gonna be a world power but staying democratic and getting the islands from the other democratic powers and making Polynesia is a great play.

Ah?!

I need to learn more about New Zealand's ability to "make Polynesia." Hmmm...its a decision that costs political power or something like that?

Interesting.

 

[billcorr]

Oh, OK. I see now.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Ah?!

I need to learn more about New Zealand's ability to "make Polynesia." Hmmm...its a decision that costs political power or something like that?

Interesting.

Yea if you go down the Maori Volunteers focus you can ask for those Islands from everyone in your faction which covers the UK FRA and USA when they join. its done by decision and doesnt cost PP

it just means a quick naval invasion of the Caroline island when war with Japan starts and you got it.

whats more you don't have to be free of the UK either to do it so it can be done as a dominion.

 

[Jorlaan]

Canada having to choose between keeping a rather large negative modifier to either manpower or industry is just ridiculously historically inaccurate but despite posting a wide range of historical material proving this I was ignored and the decision stayed.

In a nutshell Canada produced a huge amount of war material and had around 10% of it's population in uniform by the end of the war. We ended the war with the 7th largest army and 3rd largest navy. Good luck EVER accomplishing anything even CLOSE to that in a game that says "manpower or industry, you can't have both because reasons". By contrast the only other nations that did anything like this were Germany, Italy, England and Russia and maybe other Axis minors. Even the USA only had something like 4-5% of it's population in uniform (I can't remember for sure it's been a while since I looked up the specifics).

Canada was my favorite nation to play. Now I have to mod out the silly, a-historical decision in order to make them playable.

 

[Ethereld]

There are a lot of things that have to be addressed in the Commonwealth, first the most important one is that Rhodesia should be a Dominion and have a focus tree, even if it is barebones.

Then we have Canada which would be largely alright if they do remove that ahistorical restriction on industry and manpower, that they were the Third Largest Navy at the end of the war can be deceiving as a LOT of it were ships smaller than a Destroyer, still it shows Canada had an important industrial capability that is not reflected on the game.

Then we have India, this one is even worse as it has a lot of details that need to be improved. First, the colonial army of the Raj should be stronger, India has manpower problems that make no sense historically so while I would not remove the manpower nerf I would lower it a bit.

Now, how AI Japan could deal with a stronger India? That is when negative modifiers comes in, the Bengal Famine should not require 50% surrender process or more to to happen. Instead I should involve a chain of events that include both the Raj and the UK. On the political side the elections should enable actual elections and they should start with control over Yemen/Aden instead of the UK.

For the rest I think South Africa, Australia and New Zealand are mostly alright, they need a few tweaks and the British AI should take control of their troops more often, it hurts to see more than 8 South African divisions doing absolutely nothing while the UK struggles on Lybia

Unrelated to the Commonwealth itself I think Transjordan should be a British Puppet in 1936 and start with one 10 width division as to represent the Arab Legion. Unlike Egypt they did collaborate with the British during the war as small as it where their efforts

Edit: also more GFX and support companies in general would be appreciated

 

[billcorr]

Canada had an important industrial capability that is not reflected on the game.

The Paradox designers gave Canada the following industry national focuses plus-ups:

Among the Commonwealth nations' focus trees,

• Canada was gifted the most dockyards (6)
• Canada tied with Australia for the most civilian factories (6) (unless you count England's ahistoric focus option)
• Canada was gifted the most military factories (15)

There probably are other ways to reflect Canada's important industrial capability that is not reflected in the game.

What methods can anyone think of in addition to the comparatively larger number of focus-tree factories that the Paradox designers gave Canada?

 

[kimidf]

I agree with the majority that has been said in the posts, but Egypt should also be playable from the beginning and be a collaborative government, but have its own tree, and the canal area should be modified to continue to belong asBritish territory.

Ibelieve Australia's historical policy should be revised and insert approaches on replacement that the Australians did after the fall of Singapore over having preference in the alliance, let us remember that they sought USA main partners allies for their defense something has not been mentioned in the historical branch

also Raj should exchange the generic leaders for the historical leaders of India with Nehru and Pakistan Ali Jinnah and by becoming a domain it should be Lord Louis Mounntbatten as portrait

I understand that British Malay will have its own approaches when making Southeast Asian-themed DLC.

 

[RAID186]

Canada having to choose between keeping a rather large negative modifier to either manpower or industry is just ridiculously historically inaccurate but despite posting a wide range of historical material proving this I was ignored and the decision stayed.

In a nutshell Canada produced a huge amount of war material and had around 10% of it's population in uniform by the end of the war. We ended the war with the 7th largest army and 3rd largest navy. Good luck EVER accomplishing anything even CLOSE to that in a game that says "manpower or industry, you can't have both because reasons". By contrast the only other nations that did anything like this were Germany, Italy, England and Russia and maybe other Axis minors. Even the USA only had something like 4-5% of it's population in uniform (I can't remember for sure it's been a while since I looked up the specifics).

Canada was my favorite nation to play. Now I have to mod out the silly, a-historical decision in order to make them playable.

Try the TfV Overhaul mod, if you aren't already using it, it's what I used to make Canada playable.

 

[Spelaren]

Canada having to choose between keeping a rather large negative modifier to either manpower or industry is just ridiculously historically inaccurate but despite posting a wide range of historical material proving this I was ignored and the decision stayed.

In a nutshell Canada produced a huge amount of war material and had around 10% of it's population in uniform by the end of the war. We ended the war with the 7th largest army and 3rd largest navy. Good luck EVER accomplishing anything even CLOSE to that in a game that says "manpower or industry, you can't have both because reasons". By contrast the only other nations that did anything like this were Germany, Italy, England and Russia and maybe other Axis minors. Even the USA only had something like 4-5% of it's population in uniform (I can't remember for sure it's been a while since I looked up the specifics).

Canada was my favorite nation to play. Now I have to mod out the silly, a-historical decision in order to make them playable.

How did Canada have one of the largest navies in the world?

 

[mursolini]

How did Canada have one of the largest navies in the world?

It built a lot of convoy escorts. Japanese, Italian, French, German and Soviet navies were pretty much eliminated.

 

[Ethereld]

The Paradox designers gave Canada the following industry national focuses plus-ups:

View attachment 612555

Among the Commonwealth nations' focus trees,

• Canada was gifted the most dockyards (6)
• Canada tied with Australia for the most civilian factories (6) (unless you count England's ahistoric focus option)
• Canada was gifted the most military factories (15)

There probably are other ways to reflect Canada's important industrial capability that is not reflected in the game.

What methods can anyone think of in addition to the comparatively larger number of focus-tree factories that the Paradox designers gave Canada?

It is true that Canada is more gifted that the rest of the Commonwealth, but the thing is that with the current number of construction spaces and their begging factories when with 15 military factories free of charge Canada has it hard to reach its historical industrial potential.

IRL Canada manufactured 1800 Valentine tanks, 450 Lancaster bombers, it was the second manufacturer of motorized vehicles after the USA.

In that regard I think first Canada should have either General Motors Canada or Ford Canada as a motorization desing company with -10% production cost for motorized and mechanised. Coupled with that Canada needs some more construction spaces so it can build more military factories.

Also, I would buff the Bits and Pieces program from 3% factory and dockyard production to 5%

I agree with the majority that has been said in the posts, but Egypt should also be playable from the beginning and be a collaborative government, but have its own tree, and the canal area should be modified to continue to belong asBritish territory.

I don't know if to agree, on one hand having more representation of the Middle East is always great, but on the other hands there are a few issues:

1) Egypt was a neutral nation with a 100.000 strong army, they were poorly eqquiped and trained compared to the British but still.

2) This leads to point 2, if Egypt is represented as neutral the former is not a problem as those divisions won't see any action, but so far the HOI4 engine does not allow to fight on neutral territory. If Egypt starts as some kind of puppet then they will be brought to the war as Vichy France was in the past and those 100.000 soldiers would be fighting a war they did not fought.

3) Outside of this, the behaviour of the AI when it comes to defending the territory of allies and puppets can be a bit random. On some moments Expert AI tried this and it led to a better desert campaign, but on other occasions the British would just abandon the Lybian front more frequently than they do now.

 

[DukofDeth]

• How can the Commonwealth Nations be improved?
  
  
  The purpose of this thread is to highlight the variance within the UK and the Commonwealth Nations. These differences may or may not need to be made consistent with each other. What do you think?

The HoI4 downloadable content, "Together For Victory" tells a story about the British Commonwealth, a vast empire with different peoples and cultures.

Here are some examples of the variety of Commonwealth Values:


View attachment 612410


The initial stability ranges from 95% stability for New Zealand to 54% for Malaya. If anyone has insights regarding the game design rules for assigning initial stability, please feel free to share your insights.

At the start of the 1936 Scenario, War Support throughout the Empire varies nation by nation. Credit to @afrostb @afb for pointing this out. Note that the Pacific rim nations are the most bellicose.

The starting number of research slots for the Commonwealth varies between 2 and 4. For better game balance, ENG might be given more starting research slots in order to prosecute the war against the Euro + Asian Axis members. Alternatively, ENG could be given more than 1 additional research slot through its focuses.

AST's +10% industrial research bonus is at odds with the remainder of the Commonwealth bonuses. The developers upped the research bonuses a few DLCs ago (Waking the Tiger?). For some reason, AST did not get the universal boost (I think Norway was similarly overlooked).

Malaya is not part of the Commonwealth Research Group. ENG, CAN, SAF, RAJ , AST and NZL are part of the Commonwealth Research Group.

With the exception of Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland, ENG may not release nations unless it completes the appropriate national focus. SAF, RAJ, AST are allowed to release nations without completing any national focuses. Even New Zealand is allowed to release a nation (Samoa). But not England, unless England chooses a specific National Focus path.

• The designers implemented two different game design rules to achieve the same effect.

The number of dockyards gifted by national focuses varies by nations. Canada receives 6. NZL and RAJ receive 2 dockyards.

Similarly, there is a variety of Military and Civilian factories that can be gained through national focuses. 15 military factories for Canada (did I add them up correctly?) and as few as 3MIC for Australia and Malaya.

Together for Victory is a DLC that describes the coming together of all the Commonwealth to fight a common enemy. As part of that effort, the DLC seeks to represent minorities. Australia has a Women in the Military focus and South Africa, Canada, India, and New Zealand enlist the aid of marginalized communities to come together to fight the Axis.

In summary, the Together for Victory showcases the Commonwealth nations and the variety of features the characterize each nation.

• How can the Commonwealth Nations be improved?
  
  

Malaya should be included in the research group. When I did "Freegypt" I'm sure I was included.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Malaya is part of the research group its just that as an integrated puppet they get no benefit from it. As soon as they become a colony they will then get the benefits.

 

[RAID186]

On the topic of Egypt: It works very well as one of the UKs Puppets, the Total War mod portray it well.

 

[billcorr]

Malaya is part of the research group its just that as an integrated puppet they get no benefit from it. As soon as they become a colony they will then get the benefits.

That would be nice to have Malaya become part of the research group.

Does anyone have any other information about this?

I don't recall having seen Malaya become part of the Commonwealth research group.

Does anyone have any screenshots of Malaya getting tech bonuses once it becomes a puppet or dominion?

Perhaps there is a defines that lists Malaya as part of the Commonwealth research group.

 

[him_15]

I hope they Commonwealth nations can get more decision options.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

That would be nice to have Malaya become part of the research group.

Does anyone have any other information about this?

I don't recall having seen Malaya become part of the Commonwealth research group.

Does anyone have any screenshots of Malaya getting tech bonuses once it becomes a puppet or dominion?

Perhaps there is a defines that lists Malaya as part of the Commonwealth research group.

I haven't got a screen shot but if you want to know quickly play as Malaya in a non iron man game use the cheat pp for 1000 Political.

then add_autonomy Mal 1000 to give yourself autonomy to the next level. Do it twice to go from integrated to puppet then colony.

The bonus is tied to your level of autonomy with stronger bonueses the more autonomous you are,

 

[billcorr]

Note that Canada and Australia have the most national focuses that decrease the need for consumer goods by 20%.

Edited, thanks to El Nora pointing out that ENG gets a -5% consumer goods requirement. Much obliged.

These national focus bonuses help out Canada and Australia by:

1. Attenuating the effect of the Great Depression (until the Great Depression national spirit is removed) and
2. In effect, increasing the number of civilian factories usable by Canada or Australia.

New Zealand appears (?) to be penalized in terms of consumer goods (did I get that right?)