• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

imvdm

Banned
83 Badges
Oct 6, 2015
472
986
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
it suddenly came to my attention that with the introduction of open steppes in horse lord, there is really no reason to keep any ahistorical settlements in 769 Iceland anymore. Just set it as open steppes ruled by some place holder polar bears or whatever that is native to Iceland before the human colonization, and wait until a Norwegian King start a de jure war to colonize it.
 
  • 27
  • 2
Reactions:

Sergeant Flutter

King of Kings
44 Badges
Dec 22, 2015
1.030
914
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
The thing is, it shouldn't be de jure Norway at that start date anyway.

If we remove all the holdings too, it's doubly not de jure.
 
  • 6
Reactions:

Rags17

Ludere Ludum
62 Badges
Dec 11, 2014
5.953
3.631
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
One of my great fantasies / uncompletable projects is a true "empty map" version of the game - start off with Tribal areas in the major river valleys (eg Nile, Tigris/Euphrates etc) and make the rest completely empty, all owned by a placeholder Nomadic holder. I just want to see how long before Tribals become Feudals and all the empty spots start being filled up with Nomads and Tribals . . .
 
  • 12
Reactions:

RagingJaws

Looter of Priceless Artifacts
99 Badges
May 10, 2016
790
1.076
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
I don't really think it's that big of a deal.

I don't agree with the traditional founding day of 874 for the first settlements, for starters. There is enough evidence through archeology for two separate settlements, one dating back to around the 800's and the other a more generous dating of anywhere from 770-880 (I opt for an earlier date as a general rule). Beyond that, the Faeroe islands were explored in the 5th century and settled in the in the middle of the seventh. I highly doubt that Iceland was somehow missed for hundreds of years. It may be further north but it's also not a small island (larger than Scotland).

Now I don't think there was enough of a population to support having CK2 represent it as tribal but I could point out other areas of the map that share the same issues. I see far too many issues with having placeholder empty titles and it doing weird things in game.

As for the De Jure stuff, meh. Clearly, a lot of the De Jure borders get it wrong depending on which time period you start in but they are there to create familiar (for the most part) kingdoms in game. Where it is now is "nice". Not great, not terrible. Just nice. Save for Flanders, for a few more days.
 
  • 5
Reactions:

orochi2k

Major
115 Badges
Aug 25, 2012
1.378
2.117
store.steampowered.com
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
I agree to make it a polar bear nation. The game has no bear right now, it's unbearable :p
 
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions:

Zohtun

Generic Worthless Courtier
84 Badges
Sep 9, 2013
2.771
1.612
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
I'd support this just because I find the idea of Count Polar Bear to be beyond hilarious.
 
  • 8
Reactions:

Lamahorse

Functioning Alcoholic
75 Badges
Jun 2, 2010
1.444
1.452
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
Irish/Scottish monks were in the Faroese and Iceland before the Vikings.
 
  • 6
  • 1
Reactions:

DPS

Field Marshal
22 Badges
Feb 4, 2002
4.243
622
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Paradox's logic is that there was not enough to justify a whole holding.

Not sure how I feel about that.

To my understanding, the problem isn't just the numbers, it's that there weren't actual Irish settlements in Iceland (don't know about the Faeroes), just monastaries. The monks went there to get away from any females that might present them with temptations of the flesh, so no women, therefore no self-sustaining community there. Even putting a temple holding there isn't really accurate. If you're going to have Iceland in the game at all (and I can see a definite justification for leaving it out), the current approach of showing it as Norse ahistorically early is probably the best compromise. The problem is the requirement that every county starts as a de jure part of a duchy, and every duchy is de jure part of a kingdom. Much the same problem happens with Venice; it's portrayed as a de jure part of the Byzantine Empire, and in almost every one of my games, it ends up being conquered by the Byzantines at some point--something that never happened historically. It shouldn't be a de jure part of anything unless it stays conquered for 100 years and drifts, but the engine apparently doesn't allow that.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

RoverGrover

Sergeant
45 Badges
Sep 25, 2014
91
180
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
One of my great fantasies / uncompletable projects is a true "empty map" version of the game - start off with Tribal areas in the major river valleys (eg Nile, Tigris/Euphrates etc) and make the rest completely empty, all owned by a placeholder Nomadic holder. I just want to see how long before Tribals become Feudals and all the empty spots start being filled up with Nomads and Tribals . . .

You know,if you pitch that to some of the better modders, they might like it enough to make it happen. Probably worth a shot
 

Choombi

Captain
72 Badges
Apr 30, 2014
333
265
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
You know, they did mention secret bears in the latest DD, perhaps we will see Polar Bear Iceland in it's glory
 

Harassercat

Captain
20 Badges
May 26, 2016
431
455
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
I don't agree with the traditional founding day of 874 for the first settlements, for starters. There is enough evidence through archeology for two separate settlements, one dating back to around the 800's and the other a more generous dating of anywhere from 770-880 (I opt for an earlier date as a general rule).

Wait, which evidence is that and where did you read this? Nearly all archaeological studies in Iceland have been carried out by Icelandic archaeologists exclusively and the general consensus among them is not in favor of settlement in Iceland before ~870. I am Icelandic, have studied both history and a bit of archaeology at the University of Iceland and have read archaeological reports on this matter in Icelandic.

The main evidence in favor of an early settlement is C-14 measurements. They are considered unreliable however and have a range of variation of at least 200 years or even more. So what might be as old as 700 AD could also perhaps be as young as 1100 AD... There are some Icelandic academics who promote the idea of early settlement but as I say, the general consensus among both historians and archaeologists here is that there is no reliable evidence so far of settlement before ~870.

Eh... so we would get placeholder hordes raiding Europe from Iceland? Please no... I prefer the current setup. Or give Iceland to Irish monks which would be historical too.

Irish/Scottish monks were in the Faroese and Iceland before the Vikings.

To my understanding, the problem isn't just the numbers, it's that there weren't actual Irish settlements in Iceland (don't know about the Faeroes), just monastaries.

As I explained above, evidence for this is sketchy at best. There are no actual ruins that have been discovered that can clearly be defined as Celtic and/or dating from before ~870. The "evidence" so far is claims by early 20th century archaeologists of patterns inside caves that resembled Celtic crosses or bits of Ogham script... claims that could not be confirmed by other investigators later and must pretty much be dismissed as wishful thinking on behalf of those archaeologists.

Now, all this said, most academics here in Iceland would say that early colonization of Iceland by Irish monks etc is a possibility, that we must not rule out in any investigation. And there is a lot still undiscovered in the ground here in Iceland. But it is equally well possible, and likelier, that Iceland was simply colonized in the late 800's by the Norse, as per the standard story.

As for Iceland in CK2, I'm pretty much okay with it as it is. It's not particularly accurate, strictly speaking, but.... whatever. The Icelandic dynasty names are a total joke though, it would well be possible to find something more appropriate and historical.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

RagingJaws

Looter of Priceless Artifacts
99 Badges
May 10, 2016
790
1.076
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
Wait, which evidence is that and where did you read this? Nearly all archaeological studies in Iceland have been carried out by Icelandic archaeologists exclusively and the general consensus among them is not in favor of settlement in Iceland before ~870. I am Icelandic, have studied both history and a bit of archaeology at the University of Iceland and have read archaeological reports on this matter in Icelandic.

I certainly don't have your credentials and I don't really believe in being tightly conservative with my opinions. Before I begin, I want to make it clearer on what I was talking about. Large scale settlements, starting with Ingólfur Arnarson, begin what I would consider the start of organized settlement in Iceland. But, before that, we have:

1. Dicuil, Irish monk and geographer. His "De mensura Orbis terrae" is a geographical work that mentions a place called "Thule" in the north. While Thule has been used to describe any number of places beyond the known borders of the world, I strongly suspect Dicuil's Thule was truly Iceland. The Faroe Islands were already settled by his time and I don't believe his expedition stopped at only at the Faroes. The Faroes were clearly not "Thule" in his mind, not with what knowledge he had of the islands. An assumption. I do a lot of that.

2. Kverkarhellir Cave would be the location of those crosses you mention. Radiocarbon dating gives the small, probably monastic settlement, a vague guess of "around 800". It could be much later or much earlier than that. I've read about more radiocarbon dates being pushed back rather than pushed forward, so another assumption for sure, but not a completely blind one. Not that much of a stretch to think that monks living on the Faroes traveled further north, probably with or after other small groups.

3. Recent digs at Hafnir give a date anywhere from 770 to 870 for what was a singular cabin. Another wide margin of error in time but between even between what was lost to the ages and what was built over, we can make some well founded assumptions.

Iceland was known to some people in the south. Those living in the Faroes surely must have known about another, larger island to the north. Probably known to some in Ireland and Scotland as well. I don't see why there couldn't be small scale, singular attempts to settle the island. Not a true settling like the Norse did in the 800's but something more sporadic, often temporary. I expect that further digs in Iceland would slowly start to add more and more evidence for earlier, smaller, attempts to live there.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Lamahorse

Functioning Alcoholic
75 Badges
Jun 2, 2010
1.444
1.452
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
@Harassercat

Oh yes, there definitely shouldn't be Celtic culture on Iceland at the earliest date. It's uncertain whether many monks made it to Iceland but it isn't something we can irrefutably rule out.

Sure anyway, the Vikings had to kidnap Irish women to populate Iceland. :p