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Icecold

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Hi TheFlemishDuck.

Keep strong - do not use a pirated copy under ANY circumstance, by doing so you help "legitemize" you're friends action in his mind - by poeple doing what is right will you can hope correct his THEFT.

Cheers, Ice
 

TheFlemishDuck

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Keep strong - do not use a pirated copy under ANY circumstance, by doing so you help "legitemize" you're friends action in his mind - by poeple doing what is right will you can hope correct his THEFT.

Actually ,here i must admit i'm wrong.

See i do use a lot of pirate game's mostly for reviewing a game and see if it's interresting to purchase.That said i only started to buy games that i really like when i started to work.When i was at college ,i played somewhat more games because i had more time for it and when youre younger you tend to play everything ,now i only play selected genre's.And when youre at college ,youre purchasing power usually doesn't suffice to buy the amount of game's that you could like.That said ,most people of my age probably can relate to that.(I'm 23 now)

However i don't have the exact feeling that ALL Piracy is essentially wrong ,although a very difficult debate can spawn from this.To show the odd extreme for this ,having to pay copyright to the relative's of an famous artist that died several years ago ,that money doesn't stimulate any creative production.The other end of that is afcourse typicly a company Like Paradox ,who make high quality product's for a relative select public.Theyre effort is high ,games like EUII arn't easy to make ,and their public ,although many of them die hard fan's ,still have high expectation's to come up to.That said i have feeling's of sympathy for Paradox and their effort.

What eventually made me not accepting that copy was this community ,i just couldn't get it over my heart to backstab such a gem of a community with excelent moderator's and the support of such nice people like Johan.I can honestly say i read more AAR's than i ever played games in the last 2 years.There are so many excelent writer's here ,truly ,this community even beat's the Civ forum's.But in a sense that's still a matter of sentiment.

In other cases of less known software or less high quality i might do otherwise.I especially hate to have to buy software that is like 4mb's big and cost 50$ ,and most of all ,ill never buy the amount of windows xp lincence's that i would need for my current relativly small home LAN ,a 100$ for every pc they got to be kidding me.
 

Niptium

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I'm gratefull Paradox shut down on the piracy issue. I have been posting and waiting for this game like a madman since late october. I always had the intention of buying the game and it's been preordered on Fedex for weeks. I know that I wouldn't be able to resist if a link to the pirated copy of the game was offered to me right now.
 

Alexandru H.

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There was a brief statement of a Polish guy yesterday, who said that he will play a pirated copy, because the Polish economy is worse than the Western one, thus giving him a good reason to do it...

Unfortunately, he may have forgot to tell you that in every poor nation, in which category Poland or Romania are just at home right now, games are a privilege of the middle and upper classes...which are not poor, by Western standards. In Bucharest, for example, the streets are filled with pirated-version sellers, on whose tables lie at least 100-200 CDs.... and the consummers of such a sub-product are mostly rich people, teenagers with state of the arts cars etc....

The most common argument is that we are poor. Which cannot be supported. A computer game isn't very expensive, considering that you spend playing it a year without any problems (and Paradox games usually are of this kind).

Yes, but we need to try it out first. No problems, there is always a demo version of the game (several computer magazines give away free CDs with demos) or, at least, a piece of useful information (like the Paradox released video or this forum).

Yes, but we need to have more games, in order not to get bored. Yes, this is a very common answer. A typical romanian student, with a very good computer, owns about 100 games, most of them unpatchable, and plays about 5-10% of them...but the money goes to the pirate, of course... I have played HoI for 7 months now and I'm still hooked...EU2? What can I say? For over an year and it still finds place on my HDD. A man that plays Medal of Honour in a day and then throws it away might be persuaded by the pirate to buy it, but how can a person that plays the same game for months claim that it was too expensive?

I was kind of disturbed (and expressed it directly in the OT forum) by the fact that so many western people pirate games, in spite of their financial position. Then I remembered the Eastern European situation. It really isn't about national income or consciousness, it's about the fact that several persons think that they are privileged by their situation to take advantage of a certain mismatch of the system. We have this situation among our students, which are the greatest pirates. Let me give you an example. A month ago, some experts came to install a meta-network for the Regie campus, the greatest romanian student campus. They were shocked. Youngsters who seemed dirt-poor owned the latest computer hardware, latest computer software (this one pirated, of course) and their internal network is greater than the whole kazaa system... Basically, in that zone, piracy is at its finest. You can virtually find every movie, song, game or piece of software you'll ever need. They manage to hack whole sites and systems, use credit-card means to get things for free? But every student has an explanation: the big corporations are sucking all the money, why should we support them?

Now, the last points I want to make:

a)the truth is that the Paradox games are rarely found in Romania... and I know there isn't a big market for them in that part of the word, but hopefully Victoria will arrive and it will make some of its fans very happy (me included)

b)I haven't seen a romanian Victoria pirated version (and, before anyone says anything, yes, I know a lot of pirates and hackers, but I am unable to resist a beautiful box and beautiful patches, I have seen a lot of pirated games, and I usually buy them...) ... trust me, in Romania, most players prefer FPS, so Paradox takes minimal casualties, but still...

c)Piracy has become more aggressive, flooding the market with patchable versions of several games, which are indeed damaging to the whole gaming community system. And, unfortunately, it's very hard to detect them...

d)I want to thank Patric for allowing me in the beta team, even though I am in a country that is way too dangerous to newly-released games. From the beginning, I had people who desired Victoria on a burned disk, but, even if I have a CD-writer, I told them to take a hike, to try something else, because they won't appreciate this game if they don't appreciate the hard work put in it...

Looking at the whole thing, I realise I said nothing...in so many words:)
 

unmerged(17995)

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Not at all, Alexandru, you said alot, thanks for your discretion as a beta, and thanks for your comments.

I don't know all of you well enough to do this, but in a private forum where we play MP HOI, we've already made arrangements to have games shipped to two players abroad, on credit, and they repay us by mail at the same time, not in advance. They're not exactly in the Third World, or even the Second, but that doesn't take from the point It's a global economy :D and I'm sure similar arrangements can be worked out, surely there's a good enough community to do that here?

It's because I know arrangements like that are common (it was done in our group for HOI and CIVIII/PTW and Conquests as well) that I find it hard to have sympathy for the "it doesn't ship here" argument; hell, some of the guys in our group will get the game before I do.

Bastards.

:D

R.III
 

Wämö

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Originally posted by Inflatablewoman
ahhh, ok. So there is/will be some place I can report bugs if/when I find them.

That never happened to me :) :rolleyes: :rofl:

I just get a CTD when trying to start up as Atlantis. :D

i want this game now. Three more days.. Three more days.. :(
 

Alexandru H.

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Rick III, maybe we could talk about it. I would be interested, for sure. As a credit card opponent, I find them very hard (Paradox games, that is, the other kinds seem to reach Romania in no time) and such a proposal would suit my cash-loving burgeoise soul...:) ...

Thanks, Cornelius.... us, Romanians, have to stick together...maybe we will reach the level of consciousness needed to obtain a direct publisher....
 

unmerged(17995)

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Originally posted by Alexandru H.
Rick III, maybe we could talk about it. I would be interested, for sure. As a credit card opponent, I find them very hard (Paradox games, that is, the other kinds seem to reach Romania in no time) and such a proposal would suit my cash-loving burgeoise soul...:) ...

Thanks, Cornelius.... us, Romanians, have to stick together...maybe we will reach the level of consciousness needed to obtain a direct publisher....


I haven't missed this; let me get back to you later this aft; I'm typing this in the midst of a meeting.

R.III
 
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Yesterday, I thought I was the luckiest person in the world. After struggling with my concious since the pirate version became available last thursday, whether to download or not download( just to be clear, I have a deposit in at EB) I decided that it would not be right for me to do that.
Yesterday, while doing what I do every Monday night, playing poker at a dorm room three doors down from mine, I go to *certain someones* computer to change the music track they have on, thank god I don't like Jazz, and then... I see a really ugly shortcut on the desktop, some old hags cartoon picture. Scrooling over, because I have been on these forums every day for the past 6 months waiting for this game, I know who that hag is, and more importantly what she stands for. A quick double click, and then I rememembered what the night after Junior prom felt like, when I say Strategy First Logo.

I admit, I wasn't strong enough to resist:eek:o , I have waited for to long and I am too weak. As I write this I still haven't been to bed since last night.

You might be wondering if this game is any good?

-I am uninstalling EU2 from my computer, that should tell you something, it has been on there for more than two years.:D

I didn't think before, and I am sure that Paradox doesn't need to worry about loosing much money from piracy, for four reasons.
1.Contrary to Montesque, people are good.:D

2.This will be the second manual I will ever read, I read the EU1 manual cause of the history in it. This game is freaking hard. I, a vetaren of all Paradox strategic games (even Legion:D ) had absolutely no idea what to d on very easy-cowardly.

3. Whenever somebody will want to play Russia, and build a factory in Azerbajan or Tbilisi, they will come in flocks for the patches.;)

4. 6 people, out of the six that saw Vicky so far in my dorm, are buying this game, and these are not the "marker" for video games. These are the people that think we are f*ing nerds for playing these childish games. When they saw how challenging this game is.

PS. A very funny quote from one of my friends, who is majoring in public policy, said that he is re evaluating his choice of becoming a public leader in the States because how fast the USof A crumbled under his rule in the Grand Campaign.
 

Alexandru H.

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Well, I have different opinions:

1. People aren't good. You can take them as they are and use the sum of their selfish selves to manage a world, or just place laws to direct them artificially towards a certain goal. Either way, it did not work for you....

...and either way, prepare for some direct hits:eek:
 

TheFlemishDuck

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Yes ,well i still have to ****** resist taking the car and going to my friends house for the copy. :(

God bless Belgian beer.....
 
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Originally posted by Alexandru H.
Well, I have different opinions:

1. People aren't good. You can take them as they are and use the sum of their selfish selves to manage a world, or just place laws to direct them artificially towards a certain goal. Either way, it did not work for you....

...and either way, prepare for some direct hits:eek:

We can have a really long philosophical discussion on whether human beings are good or bad, or is there bad at all, or is it just lack of good:confused: I love philosophy.:D But I rather not, since I am sure this board has a PhD in philosophy, and I don't want my argument to be raped.

Moving on to the second part of your post. I kind of expect it. I have been a very long member of this community, don't let the joined last month fool you, thats my new name...my old one was CzarAlex, and then I had one before that, but I forgot what it was. I change them whenever I get banned and then when I am allowed back, I am not allowed to see a certain forum like for instance HoI with CzarAlex, I don't know why) anyway, and I hope to be a member for a long time to come, if I don't get banned for this:( , and playing this game early would have been on my counciousness, and I would have moral problems down the line that I don't want to deal with so, I had to come out and say the truth. and thus I take full responsibiity.

edit: just to clerify, I got banned for political opinions
 

Niptium

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Originally posted by CzarAleks
Yesterday, I thought I was the luckiest person in the world. After struggling with my concious since the pirate version became available last thursday, whether to download or not download( just to be clear, I have a deposit in at EB) I decided that it would not be right for me to do that.
Yesterday, while doing what I do every Monday night, playing poker at a dorm room three doors down from mine, I go to *certain someones* computer to change the music track they have on, thank god I don't like Jazz, and then... I see a really ugly shortcut on the desktop, some old hags cartoon picture. Scrooling over, because I have been on these forums every day for the past 6 months waiting for this game, I know who that hag is, and more importantly what she stands for. A quick double click, and then I rememembered what the night after Junior prom felt like, when I say Strategy First Logo.

I admit, I wasn't strong enough to resist:eek:o , I have waited for to long and I am too weak. As I write this I still haven't been to bed since last night.

You might be wondering if this game is any good?

-I am uninstalling EU2 from my computer, that should tell you something, it has been on there for more than two years.:D

I didn't think before, and I am sure that Paradox doesn't need to worry about loosing much money from piracy, for four reasons.
1.Contrary to Montesque, people are good.:D

2.This will be the second manual I will ever read, I read the EU1 manual cause of the history in it. This game is freaking hard. I, a vetaren of all Paradox strategic games (even Legion:D ) had absolutely no idea what to d on very easy-cowardly.

3. Whenever somebody will want to play Russia, and build a factory in Azerbajan or Tbilisi, they will come in flocks for the patches.;)

4. 6 people, out of the six that saw Vicky so far in my dorm, are buying this game, and these are not the "marker" for video games. These are the people that think we are f*ing nerds for playing these childish games. When they saw how challenging this game is.

PS. A very funny quote from one of my friends, who is majoring in public policy, said that he is re evaluating his choice of becoming a public leader in the States because how fast the USof A crumbled under his rule in the Grand Campaign.

You are, in fact, a very lucky person. I am longing for that game and my copy is already reserved. Luckily for Paradox, I couldn't find a f*cking elephant in a corridor, much less on Warez. So I didn't even try. I am longing for the 18th. 7 days. 7 LONG DAYS !
 
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treedom

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Originally posted by CzarAleks
I admit, I wasn't strong enough to resist:eek:o , I have waited for to long and I am too weak. As I write this I still haven't been to bed since last night.

I'm not going to judge you about this...too many people feel empowered to do so around here for some reason. But I think it's in bad taste to come into Patric's thread about piracy and talk about this, especially considering how upset Paradox is about this (and rightly so). Be a little considerate. If you've played the game, at least shut up about it till it's released. Don't rub it in their face.
 

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Sorry to lurk & post, but a couple of things struck me:

- props to Patric and the folks at Paradox, both for EU 1 & 2, HOI, and in advance for Victoria. You make great games - keep it up!

- all this moralizing about the evils of copyright violations is pretty silly. We spent a ton of time, effort and money building millions of computers that are only really good at moving little bits of data around. Then we spent even more resources on connecting all those bit-copying machines together in a distributed, decentralized network. Piracy isn't some kind of moral offence - it's a paradigm shift in the relationship between publishers and consumers. The only technical way to prevent pirates from "illegally" copying copyrighted materials is to rethink PC circuit design logic from the bit level up and redesign the internet. Since that isn't going to happen, piracy's here to stay. Software companies will either adapt to the new environment or they'll go out of business. I bet Paradox is one of the companies that will thrive - they're committed to supporting their games after release and they work to build an active, thriving community.
 
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