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HonorKnight

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The Backer Beta Manual said the following:
"Your base chance to hit with a ranged attack is 65% + 2.5% per point of Gunnery skill. This is then reduced for each point of Difficulty. The first 10 points of Difficulty reduce your chance to hit by 5% each. All points past 10 reduce your chance by 2% each."

However, the real base chance to hit with a ranged attack was 75%, not 65%, with + 5% per two points of Gunnery skill. Odd skill points don't seem to increase hit chance, although this may just be a display thing rather than the real hit chance.

I'm a little fuzzy on what happens at and beyond 10 difficulty points (percent hit chances are only shown rounded to 5% increments), but based on the json files I believe each difficulty after 10 is supposed to count for 2.5% hit chance reduction, not 2%.

Sources of difficulty points:
Target shut down from heat: -4
At least 15 meters higher than target (bonus doesn't stack multiple times): -1
Laser accuracy: -1
Arm mounted weapon: -1
Your 'Mech is overheated: +1
Your 'Mech was hit with a PPC since its last turn: +1
This weapon was fired last turn and is an AC/2 or AC/5: +1
Target Size (Medium): +1
Target Size (Light): +2
This weapon was fired last turn and is an AC/10 or AC/20: +2
Line of sight to target obstructed: +2
This weapon is damaged: +2
Evasive (per evasive pip): +2
Your 'Mech is within a Mineral Field: +2
Indirect fire penalty (tactics 1-2): +3, (tactics 3-5): +2, (tactics 6-8): +1, (tactics 9+): 0
Your 'Mech just stood up: +4
Target within a Mineral Field: +4
Target at Long range: +4
Target inside Minimum weapon range: +8

Also note that there's no such thing as negative difficulty, it caps out at 0. I.e. if you have a laser weapon on your arm (-2), and no positive modifiers, your final difficulty modifier is 0, not -2.

It's interesting to note that a pilot with tactics 6+ who has an obstructed line of sight to a target (+2 penalty) can't choose to instead take an indirect fire shot at the same target from the same position for just a -1 penalty (or 0 if tactics were 9+). In this case, a fully obstructed shot would have a better chance to hit than a partially obstructed shot, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

And just reiterating: this is all from the beta. It may have changed drastically in the six months or so since the beta was built. For example, we've already seen evidence of at least one difficulty modifier having changed slightly in the final game: the mercenary campaign video briefly showed the Barracks, and showed both a 3-tactics pilot and a 4-tactics pilot. This demonstrated that the "-1 indirect fire penalty" has been moved to a tactics 4 skill, from its previous place in the beta as a tactics 3 skill.
 
Last edited:

Prussian Havoc

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Obstructed Direct Fire LRMs?

Jenner Ammo Storage Location has already been addressed, maybe even the Centrurion’s CT Armor has been relooked... maybe Archangel @HBS_Adarael will here our pleas on this topic too?

Though no doubt there is much more to this particular issue and we may have long since passed the Line of Departure for such a change. :bow:
 

HonorKnight

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BTW, below is an example of why I say my understanding of the effect of difficulty modifiers 10 and up is a little "fuzzy":
z4B2Rc0.png


All of these were from the same pilot, in the same 'Mech, the same turn, targeting enemies at different distances to get a wide range of shot modifiers.

Notice how two of the shot modifiers are +10 (even an identical list of difficulty modifiers), but somehow they have different to-hit chances, either 30% or 35%? Likewise two of the shot modifiers are +12, but for some reason those, too, have different to-hit chances from one another, either 25% or 30%. Not to mention that the +14 modifier results in the same 25% hit chance as the +12 modifier next to it, for some reason? Same pilot, same 'Mech, same turn, no apparent reason why these numbers should vary like this.

But anyhow, at difficulty modifiers smaller than 10, the information in the original post seems to hold true.

Again, this is beta info. Don't prejudge the final game based on this.
 
Last edited:

Gorski123

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Excellent information. Excuse me for a moment. :eek::oops::confused::mad::( I had no idea it was this hard for elite pilots to Indirect fire LRMs at long range. I hope we find some lostech targeting computers along the way. With additional called shot bonuses please.:D
 

Bilbo999

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Excellent information. Excuse me for a moment. :eek::oops::confused::mad::( I had no idea it was this hard for elite pilots to Indirect fire LRMs at long range. I hope we find some lostech targeting computers along the way. With additional called shot bonuses please.:D
Keep in mind that all of the pilots used by the streamer had middling gunnery skill at best, so the hit percentages could actually get substantially better.
 

Gorski123

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Test calculation: Gunnery-8, Tactics-6 firing LRM at long range indirect vs a light mech with 4 evasion pips. I see this as an elite pilot and do not expect to get one this good until mid to late campaign.

75+20(gunnery)-62.5(15 negative mods)= 32.5% This makes me want to cry.

Test #2: Same pilot, short range indirect vs a heavy mech with 2 evasion pips.

95-25(5 negative mods)=70% This makes me drool. :D


Now that I have actually run the numbers, I have found my center and calmed down a bit. The to-hit chances for the heavy might be a little optimistic. Not sure how hard it is to LRM kite at short range. Also, if the AI knows you have breaching shot, it might as well sprint instead of run and brace. I forgot to deduct SLock and the second and third LRM mechs will of course have better shots.
 

Bilbo999

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Test calculation: Gunnery-8, Tactics-6 firing LRM at long range indirect vs a light mech with 4 evasion pips. I see this as an elite pilot and do not expect to get one this good until mid to late campaign.

75+20(gunnery)-62.5(15 negative mods)= 32.5% This makes me want to cry.

Test #2: Same pilot, short range indirect vs a heavy mech with 2 evasion pips.

95-25(5 negative mods)=70% This makes me drool. :D


Now that I have actually run the numbers, I have found my center and calmed down a bit. The to-hit chances for the heavy might be a little optimistic. Not sure how hard it is to LRM kite at short range. Also, if the AI knows you have breaching shot, it might as well sprint instead of run and brace. I forgot to deduct SLock and the second and third LRM mechs will of course have better shots.
The first example just shows how good evasion pips are. Half of your negative hit modifier goes away without them and you are sitting at 64% to hit with all those sweet missiles.
 

ronhatch

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Based on the logs I have, it looks like to-hit information can be logged but is not turned on by default.

Anyone that wants to look into the behind-the-scenes bits more can start by enabling more logging, as explained on the modding wiki:
http://btmodding.warriorsblood.com/index.php?title=Extending_the_Log_Settings

The kinds of entries I'm seeing are:
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ======================================== Unit Firing: Kintaro | Weapon: SRM 6 | Shots: 6
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ======================================== Hit Info: GROUP 0 | ID 1
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ======================================== UNIVERSAL MODIFIERS:
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ========================================
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ======================================== FINAL UM: [[ 0 ]]
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ======================================== Gunnery Result: 0.95 // Gunnery Floor 0.75 + ( Pilot Gunnery Skill 8 / Gunnery Divisor 40 )
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ======================================== HIT CHANCE: [[ 95.00 % ]]
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? RANDOM HIT ROLLS (GetIndividualHits): Weapon Group: 0 // Weapon: 1
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? Random Value Grabbed for Weapon Group: 0 // Weapon: 1: [[ 0.09184755 ]] | 1 / 43 Values Used
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? Array Value 0: [[ 0.09184755 ]]
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? Random Value Grabbed for Weapon Group: 0 // Weapon: 1: [[ 0.4376236 ]] | 2 / 43 Values Used
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? Array Value 1: [[ 0.4376236 ]]
[...]
CombatLog.Attacking [LOG] SEQ:2650449: WEAP:1 SHOT:0 Roll Value: 0.1566731
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? DIRECTION: Front // TABLE: HitMechLocationFromFront
CombatLog.Attacking [LOG] SEQ:2650449: WEAP:1 SHOT:0 Hit! Location: 32
CombatLog.HitMin [LOG] WEAPON: SRM 6 - SHOT: 0 Hits! ////// HEX VAL 32
CombatLog.Attacking [LOG] SEQ:2650449: WEAP:1 SHOT:1 Roll Value: 0.4683148
CombatLog.Hit [LOG] ???????? DIRECTION: Front // TABLE: HitMechLocationFromFront
CombatLog.Attacking [LOG] SEQ:2650449: WEAP:1 SHOT:1 Hit! Location: 16
CombatLog.HitMin [LOG] WEAPON: SRM 6 - SHOT: 1 Hits! ////// HEX VAL 16

Could be useful for figuring out if the to-hit chances are rounded off to the nearest five percent only for display or if those are really the odds. Not interested in taking the time to figure it out myself, at the moment... but if anyone else is interested, please... have at it.

Edit: Oh, and I'm not sure which version of the beta I grabbed these logs from, so it could have changed.
 

Malek Deneith

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This weapon was fired last turn and is an autocannon: +1
Curious. I've seen this page linked before and it implies the refire penalty is +2 for AC/10 and AC/20. This seems to be in-line with what I saw in some older video showing off the game. Was the penalty lowered?

Also much thanks for this post, makes it much clearer why people seem concerned in the other thread about +/-1 not always equaling +/-5%
 

Jade_Rook

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Curious. I've seen this page linked before and it implies the refire penalty is +2 for AC/10 and AC/20. This seems to be in-line with what I saw in some older video showing off the game. Was the penalty lowered?

Also much thanks for this post, makes it much clearer why people seem concerned in the other thread about +/-1 not always equaling +/-5%
The refire penalties for AC/2 and AC/5 were 1 and the AC/10 and AC/20 were 2 in the beta.
 

Cyttorak001

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I thought the refire penalties also built up, so -1 for the 2nd turn of firing, with maybe a maximum of -2 on the 3rd turn. There have also been changes to pilot skills which now mitigate some of the refire penalites, so -2 might only be the max for newb pilots now.
 

HonorKnight

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Curious. I've seen this page linked before and it implies the refire penalty is +2 for AC/10 and AC/20. This seems to be in-line with what I saw in some older video showing off the game. Was the penalty lowered?

Also much thanks for this post, makes it much clearer why people seem concerned in the other thread about +/-1 not always equaling +/-5%
Thanks, updated with that corrected information. Also added the PPC effect, i overlooked that when making the list
 

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Thanks, updated with that corrected information. Also added the PPC effect, i overlooked that when making the list
I've come to believe that this is a pretty significant effect for PPCs. I used to try and put LLs on everything, but the sensor disruption (-1 malus) coupled with the high stability damage makes me want to find a way to include more PPCs in my lances (or at least one).
 

HonorKnight

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I thought the refire penalties also built up, so -1 for the 2nd turn of firing, with maybe a maximum of -2 on the 3rd turn. There have also been changes to pilot skills which now mitigate some of the refire penalites, so -2 might only be the max for newb pilots now.
I just tested on all 4 autocannons to make sure, the effect does not stack/grow if you attack multiple turns in a row, it stays at the same penalty until you go a turn without firing that weapon
 

Agent.0.Fortune

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Notice how two of the shot modifiers are +10 (even an identical list of difficulty modifiers), but somehow they have different to-hit chances, either 30% or 35%? Likewise two of the shot modifiers are +12, but for some reason those, too, have different to-hit chances from one another, either 25% or 30%. Not to mention that the +14 modifier results in the same 25% hit chance as the +12 modifier next to it, for some reason? Same pilot, same 'Mech, same turn, no apparent reason why these numbers should vary like this.

But anyhow, at difficulty modifiers smaller than 10, the information in the original post seems to hold true.

Again, this is beta info. Don't prejudge the final game based on this.
I hope that 25% is not the "minimum" accuracy (meaning a instead of dropping to a 15% accuracy, it is bottom-capped 25%) otherwise missile will be even more powerful than Backer Beta (where they were already overpowered) due to individual to-hit rolls, evasion malus, and stability malus.
 

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I hope that 25% is not the "minimum" accuracy (meaning a instead of dropping to a 15% accuracy, it is bottom-capped 25%) otherwise missile will be even more powerful than Backer Beta (where they were already overpowered) due to individual to-hit rolls, evasion malus, and stability malus.
I think the devs did this to force faster game resolution. It's probably the main way of making games resolve within 30 minutes, so I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.
 

Bilbo999

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BTW, below is an example of why I say my understanding of the effect of difficulty modifiers 10 and up is a little "fuzzy":
z4B2Rc0.png


All of these were from the same pilot, in the same 'Mech, the same turn, targeting enemies at different distances to get a wide range of shot modifiers.

Notice how two of the shot modifiers are +10 (even an identical list of difficulty modifiers), but somehow they have different to-hit chances, either 30% or 35%? Likewise two of the shot modifiers are +12, but for some reason those, too, have different to-hit chances from one another, either 25% or 30%. Not to mention that the +14 modifier results in the same 25% hit chance as the +12 modifier next to it, for some reason? Same pilot, same 'Mech, same turn, no apparent reason why these numbers should vary like this.

But anyhow, at difficulty modifiers smaller than 10, the information in the original post seems to hold true.

Again, this is beta info. Don't prejudge the final game based on this.

I hope that 25% is not the "minimum" accuracy (meaning a instead of dropping to a 15% accuracy, it is bottom-capped 25%) otherwise missile will be even more powerful than Backer Beta (where they were already overpowered) due to individual to-hit rolls, evasion malus, and stability malus.

I think the devs did this to force faster game resolution. It's probably the main way of making games resolve within 30 minutes, so I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.
There's a 10% chance to hit in the screenshot. Unless I'm missing something, there is no floor.
 

Cyttorak001

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There's a 10% chance to hit in the screenshot. Unless I'm missing something, there is no floor.
The 10% chance is for an LRM under its minimum range. Devs never touched those numbers from beta 1.0 until now, and never suggested that LRMs should be used under minimum range. That's an outlier if you're talking about the to-hit curve.