To Greece or not to Greece?

[Tokie]

Should I create the Kingdom of Greece as the Roman Emperor? I am at a point where I need to delegate lots of Kingdoms so my vassal counts would be manageable, and I don't like to see my land drifting to neighbor kingdoms.

Would high CA from the Kingdom of Greece prevents it's neighbor from taking the Greece lands via marriage? Even if we are in the same realm?

 

[Yenzen]

It would be the CA of the empire protects against outside marriages.

However, creating Greece is mostly a bad idea, your douxes will want the title (-20? to relations plus starting factions) since, as emperor, it is not your primary.

Create kingdoms only to cut down on the number of direct vassals by handing them out when the douxes plotting gets out of hand, but be careful about not making them a threat. Remember that the ability to revoke Doux titles does not work for Despots!

 

[SewrRatt]

Should I create the Kingdom of Greece as the Roman Emperor? I am at a point where I need to delegate lots of Kingdoms so my vassal counts would be manageable, and I don't like to see my land drifting to neighbor kingdoms.

Would high CA from the Kingdom of Greece prevents it's neighbor from taking the Greece lands via marriage? Even if we are in the same realm?

If you do, you replace a bunch of Douxs with one King. You can keep your holdings in Greece and I'm pretty sure King-level vassals don't get modifiers for desiring them. However, I don't think you can prevent lands from leaving vassal Kingdoms within the realm via inheritance because high CA says it prevents titles from leaving the realm, which means the entire Empire. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Kalderus]

If you're going to create the kingdom of Greece, then you should probably use it as your single kingdom, assuming your demense is only either in Greece or Greece and another kingdom without a king vassal. If you already have a king-tier title for another kingdom, then vassals will start desiring the second one, and for an empire vassals in another de jure kingdom usually desire the newest kingdom you acquired/created. For instance, as a Russian Tsar in another game, where I had held the kingdom of Rus longest, my duke in Volga Bulgaria started desiring Volga Bulgaria, but none of my dukes in Rus desired Rus. So I can confirm that as an emperor, your vassals will not desire your kingdoms as long as you personally only hold one, and will only desire one if you create/acquire more and have dukes in those de jure kingdoms.

 

[Isaios]

However, creating Greece is mostly a bad idea, your douxes will want the title (-20? to relations plus starting factions) since, as emperor, it is not your primary.

That's just not correct, they'll desire any secondary Despotates you've got, but your first one you get to keep for free.

I generally create Greece so as to incorporate a few of the less interesting Kingdoms. Serbia usually (so small as to leave it pointless for administrative purposes) and definitely Wallachia, since you can't create that title at all (unless through lots of tedious circumvention), and usually Bulgaria as well, just to make it look pretty.

 

[zenkmander]

Keep in mind that the primogeniture succession Greece uses is different than the Empire's primo succession. For example, my heir to the imperial throne is my youngest son because he was born in the purple, but my eldest son is the heir to Greece. That could definitely create problems down the road. I had to destroy the title since I couldn't change succession fast enough due to internal wars.

 

[ve3609]

I've always wondered about that. thanks

 

[Tokie]

Keep in mind that the primogeniture succession Greece uses is different than the Empire's primo succession. For example, my heir to the imperial throne is my youngest son because he was born in the purple, but my eldest son is the heir to Greece. That could definitely create problems down the road. I had to destroy the title since I couldn't change succession fast enough due to internal wars.

Yes! The born in the purple trait certainly makes successions very interesting. I turned my Kingdom of Greece law into elective for the moment so my heir can actually get the title.

I am currently the ERE emperor that holds Kingdom of Greece and Kingdom of Jerusalem. I think where you place your capital determines which kingdom gets the -20 relation with desires kingdom X.

 

[Isaios]

Keep in mind that the primogeniture succession Greece uses is different than the Empire's primo succession. For example, my heir to the imperial throne is my youngest son because he was born in the purple, but my eldest son is the heir to Greece. That could definitely create problems down the road. I had to destroy the title since I couldn't change succession fast enough due to internal wars.

Oo! Thanks. That hasn't been a problem yet, but it would'a snuck up on me.

 

[Isaios]

I am currently the ERE emperor that holds Kingdom of Greece and Kingdom of Jerusalem. I think where you place your capital determines which kingdom gets the -20 relation with desires kingdom X.

Correct. Same thing determines Duchies when a King and also determines which Counties you can plot to revoke in either case.

 

[mr_human_555]

And with 1.08, it's not so good anymore to give your vassal kingdom titles. The patch log said every vassal who are

1. Of your culture & religion
2. DeJure Vassal
3. NOT Kings

will not desire independence.

I guess it's now better to hoard kingdom titles for yourself if you want to create it, but again it will create succession problem for the Born in Purple mechanism

 

[Lwantssugar]

What if it's a king title inside the de jure empire? Like Armenia inside of the ERE

 

[mr_human_555]

It seems that they'll still want independence, or at least that's how I get it from the patch note...

Anyway why would you want vassal king if it doesn't contribute to your realm stability? Less vassal kings = more soldiers & more feudal tax if you enable it, and less blobbing vassal

 

[Lord Finnish]

Well, creating a Kingdom of Greece means that if you keep it yourself you will every week have to deal with vassals plotting to get the title and you get opinion penalties with everyone in Greece.

Also, in a minor note, it would make no sense for the Roman Emperor to establish a Kingdom of Greece when it is already integrated to the Empire itself.

 

[Muskeato]

Keep in mind that the primogeniture succession Greece uses is different than the Empire's primo succession. For example, my heir to the imperial throne is my youngest son because he was born in the purple, but my eldest son is the heir to Greece. That could definitely create problems down the road. I had to destroy the title since I couldn't change succession fast enough due to internal wars.

Presuming you want your eldest to inherit but he isn't born in the purple, you can usually grant them the honorary title "Despot" which makes them count as born in the purple for succession purposes.

 

[Isaios]

Presuming you want your eldest to inherit but he isn't born in the purple, you can usually grant them the honorary title "Despot" which makes them count as born in the purple for succession purposes.

And gives them a nice boost of prestige for when they take over. It's nice being the Despot.

 

[Yxklyx]

And with 1.08, it's not so good anymore to give your vassal kingdom titles. The patch log said every vassal who are

1. Of your culture & religion
2. DeJure Vassal
3. NOT Kings

will not desire independence.

I guess it's now better to hoard kingdom titles for yourself if you want to create it, but again it will create succession problem for the Born in Purple mechanism

I have not had any major issues tackling Independence factions - but have not played Byzantium yet.

One of the major benefits of having Kingdoms within an empire is that they're much more likely to start their own wars of conquest that will increase the size of your Empire. There are few things more satisfying than conquering some land creating a Kingdom and then watching the new King attack the same enemy to conquer some more.

 

[zenkmander]

Presuming you want your eldest to inherit but he isn't born in the purple, you can usually grant them the honorary title "Despot" which makes them count as born in the purple for succession purposes.

Thanks that's awesome! Had no idea

 

[ve3609]

And gives them a nice boost of prestige for when they take over. It's nice being the Despot.

It's good to be da king

 

[Redwulf_Storm]

That's just not correct, they'll desire any secondary Despotates you've got, but your first one you get to keep for free.

I know this is the way it used to be, but in my most recent game I was the the Despot of Serbia, then became the emperor, then those vassals in Serbia desired the kingdom title (It was my only kingdom title). Maybe it was a bug in my game, I don't know. I kept the title anyways though, so I could sit and watch them pout.