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Hootieleece

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The really screwed up thing is the relations bonuses.+50 for granting independence and +25 for crushing a major revolt.

I think these should be swapped and then you would have harder time vassalizing newly independents and afford being a little bit of a tyrant after a revolt(executions anyone).
 

unmerged(228153)

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The independence faction is totally nuts, especially with regards to the Holy Roman Empire.

In vanilla CK2, the HRE will usually have to contend with an independence faction composed of multiple Italian lords and a certain Italian lady, plus some random counts in Burgundy and sometimes the dukes of Holland and Bohemia. That makes sense, I guess. However, since the faction leader is usually the Lord Mayor of Bologna or some such, the Kaiser can simply have 6000 troops march into that very inviting city and gain disproportional warscore for that "accomplishment". The real silliness, however, begins when such merry folks as the Duke of Bavaria or the Duke of Meißen join the independence faction. What gives? Why wouldn't they rather support a claimant to the throne, since every elector within the HRE is eligible as long as the succession laws aren't changed? Why would they claim independence only to be totally cheesed when the Emperor inevitably presses his strong claim and slaps their sorry sitzfleisch? Why wouldn't they try to set themselves up as the Kaiser while the current one is busy with the likes of Lombardy and Dauphiné? Instead, I see stuff like independent Saxony for about ten years before it gets re-absorbed into the blob, while the Salian dynasty switches to Agnatic Primogeniture and rules over the HRE forever. Historically, the Saxons of the 11th century rather sought to replace the Salians on the Imperial throne with one of their preferred candidates (Rudolf von Rheinfelden, most prominently), not secede from the unruly Union and get stomped on by Denmark, losing Hamburg in the process for a net gain of nada.

Let me repeat that: No one in the HRE ever tries to install some claimant or the other. That's because everyone rather joins the constantly-growing independence faction, whose leader declares war at random when the Kaiser isn't otherwise occupied, then either gets crushed or wins by virtue of kinda-cheesy "reinforcements" of similar numbers to the Golden Horde, and then gets crushed ten years later. Even worse off is Byzantium, where every single douxbag always tries to lower Crown Authority while an unbroken line of Doukas emperors reigns supreme for 200 years, since no-one can even usurp the damn throne without a claim. France and England are usually far more interesting in vanilla, since there are multiple but not too many dynasties with claims to the throne, which leads to a pretty turbulent as well as ~*plausible*~ game.
 

Fishy101

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I thought I read somewhere that your blood relatives don't join independence factions unless they are kings. This hasn't been true for me. I get blood relatives who are not kings joining independence factions all the time.
 

Comradebot

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I really wish they'd switch the claims you get upon losing an independence war to inheritable, weak claims. Strong claims often result in an independence war being a pointless waste of time as the original liege re-absorbs most of the lost land, and its simply far too easily abused. Any time you see players citing intentionally losing a war as the best strategy, you know something needs to be fixed.

Changing them to weak claims will make people hesitant to accept the demands of their vassals, and if you do lose the vassals the original liege won't be able to just pick them back up a single tiny realm at a time.
 

Fishy101

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I really wish they'd switch the claims you get upon losing an independence war to inheritable, weak claims. Strong claims often result in an independence war being a pointless waste of time as the original liege re-absorbs most of the lost land, and its simply far too easily abused. Any time you see players citing intentionally losing a war as the best strategy, you know something needs to be fixed.

Changing them to weak claims will make people hesitant to accept the demands of their vassals, and if you do lose the vassals the original liege won't be able to just pick them back up a single tiny realm at a time.

There is actually a really good reason to fight independence wars and that is time. How many years will it take for you to take back all your lands one piece at a time? And after taking it back you won't have the +25 bonus opinion for putting down a revolt and definitely not the +25 for sparing the revolters. Every time I get stuck with an independence ultimatum I've fought it except that one time when I was invading the HRE. I wasn't about to lose my one shot at taking the HRE over an independence war.