To fight or not to fight, or the independence faction quirks.

[telegraph]

Let's assume I am the liege and my vassals pile up in the independence faction. Eventually they either disband the faction (no issues here. "status quo" is maintained.) OR they make the ultimatum. In my early games I always decided to fight and ended up in an ugly civil war, EU:Rome style. Most of them I won, but lost a few too. Sometimes the "Revolt" took few generations to suppress. Now I tried another approach and want to share with you:

When faction makes a demand I let them go. It results in three consequences:
1. faction leader thinks better of me (+40)
2. I get a lot of strong claims on everyone in that faction
3. All lords in faction become independent.

Next thing I do is allow all the lords who would like to get back under my banners to do so. All de jure vassals do so eagerly. Most of non-dejure vassals require only a few coins to sign the contract again. And those, who would not sign the contract (kings and other troublesome lords) can be dealt with individually, one by one.
One side effect is that I can easily end any vassal-vassal wars that way - if a belligerent was in the faction - I join his war and help him win, afterwards he is allowed to swear fealty and pay homage to me.

So, why would anyone want to actually fight in independence war? It seems easier to kill them one-by-one, and most of them will return to contact without any bloodshed(why did they even joined the faction in the first place?).

 

[Veetor]

Yeah this is kinda of weird, why enter a independence faction, if one little offer to join back and you do?

 

[unmerged(511694)]

There should be a 10 year truce after an Independence faction succeeds, even if the liege accepts the ultimatum

 

[POemil]

Well, one of the upsides on not giving in and crushing the revolt is that you get a nice relationship bonus if you win. But I don't know if that alone is worth it.

 

[Damorte]

If youve been smart with handing out duchies and kingdoms you will have given the duchy/kingdom holder only one county to severely reduce his strength. In that case after you win the war and imprison the rebels you can revoke his main title and hand it out to someone more loyal. The rebel will be so weak he wont be able to claim back his title, and your new king/duke will love you to bits.

Try to always keep your vassals weak and in constant struggle for power within his own realm and he wont be bothering you that much.

 

[telegraph]

And if you let him go - you will be able to Press All Claims and get ALL of his titles for redistribution.

 

[Bellicosity]

It should be a weak claim and 10 year forced truce. Also any newly independent leaders should have a flag that makes the ai auto decline any invitations for vassalage.

 

[gornard]

I never thought of this before. I always wanted to finish these fights earlier, because inevitably some neighbor will try and grab those independent duchies off of you. But i guess if you just give in then there is no war so no truce and no rebels.

Is there any disadvantage? Does it lower crown authority or prestige?

 

[telegraph]

I never thought of this before. I always wanted to finish these fights earlier, because inevitably some neighbor will try and grab those independent duchies off of you. But i guess if you just give in then there is no war so no truce and no rebels.

Is there any disadvantage? Does it lower crown authority or prestige?

Not really. And I find it much faster to kill them one-by-one, then having to fight the whole pack at once, thus reducing the threat of foreign mischief.

 

[Cymsdale]

I love independence wars. First of all, a white peace is pretty much "just as good" as a full victory for the sovereign, so they don't necessarily last as long as one might think. Afterwards, I get a huge relations boost with everyone involved and it just makes the whole kingdom a lot easier to run. You also have a reason to jail everyone involved, so you can hold that in your pocket to quickly put any mischief to rest.

 

[telegraph]

On the other hand:
if everybody love you well enough, additional +25 will not do much good. A +60 for giving a duchy in troublesome places - will help a lot.
And with all those claims you get from giving in to a faction - you will hand out duchies like candies.

 

[Yxklyx]

If youve been smart with handing out duchies and kingdoms you will have given the duchy/kingdom holder only one county to severely reduce his strength. In that case after you win the war and imprison the rebels you can revoke his main title and hand it out to someone more loyal. The rebel will be so weak he wont be able to claim back his title, and your new king/duke will love you to bits.

Try to always keep your vassals weak and in constant struggle for power within his own realm and he wont be bothering you that much.

I'm not sure I agree with a general one county per Duke strategy - for one thing it depends on how many counties are in the Duchy. A weak Duke can be embroiled in years of conflicts with his vassals unless he has a decided edge in manpower. If you have a 2 county Duchy and you give the Duke only 1 county then when his vassal revolts both sides will be of equal strength and the war can be ongoing for several years (unless some alliances have been made).

 

[minke19104]

I make a point to just destroy ducal titles past the allowed 2 on any medium kingdoms. Whats the point of giving duchies when they rebel anyway. Its better to fight 10 counts than 3 superdukes. After you win you can revoke all rebelling counts rather than just 1 country from each dukes. Even at 100 relatiobs they join a faction against you sometimes.

 

[FabiusBile]

Still, after they get independence, they might be attacked and sometimes they'll be grabbed before you could react. Also, most Vassals that do not have the same Culture as you (Empire of Scandinavia - not swedish, but Danish/Norwegian/etc.) will not accept the invite anyway.

Also if you win an independece war, the instigator is a traitor anyway and I can revoke a title for free .

 

[telegraph]

I make a point to just destroy ducal titles past the allowed 2 on any medium kingdoms. Whats the point of giving duchies when they rebel anyway. Its better to fight 10 counts than 3 superdukes. After you win you can revoke all rebelling counts rather than just 1 country from each dukes. Even at 100 relatiobs they join a faction against you sometimes.

I do not know. If I do not have a lot of unlanded kin - I usually give the whole duchies to one guy to distribute as he sees fit. Sometimes I give the whole kingdoms to one guy.

I find it much easier to treat with a few dukes/kings then with a lot of counts. Moreover, I tend to keep my CA as low as I can (Limited CA, if I do not want to change succession laws.) This way my vassals are uite proactive in expening my state in all directions. If some super-duke or king goes independent - I do not really care, as most of them are my kin, so I do not care if France is under me, or is it my perpetual ally as kin. And when I do care - I can easily press all my claims on such troublesome vassal and give his lands to my kin.

 

[telegraph]

Still, after they get independence, they might be attacked and sometimes they'll be grabbed before you could react. Also, most Vassals that do not have the same Culture as you (Empire of Scandinavia - not swedish, but Danish/Norwegian/etc.) will not accept the invite anyway.

Also if you win an independece war, the instigator is a traitor anyway and I can revoke a title for free .

A title vs. All his titles.

Foreigners can be conquired or bought cheaply(one gift).

Even if someone is taken - I still have the claims to take him back. And during the civil war - there is more time for foreign incursions.

 

[FabiusBile]

A title vs. All his titles.

Foreigners can be conquired or bought cheaply(one gift).

Even if someone is taken - I still have the claims to take him back. And during the civil war - there is more time for foreign incursions.

All my foreign lords did have five (-----) (Foreigner) in my game, hence it was impossible to get them back. I must be doing something wrong then .

Also, wars created by claims of foreign powers end when your civil war ends; if you however become the new Liege of a Vassal, you'll still be at war with the initial claimant. This is very bad if the HRE wants Holstein back .

 

[Yxklyx]

Not letting them go (and fighting) also allows the possibility of a peasant super stack being spawned and while yes they can be defeated you will lose a lot of men in the process.

 

[telegraph]

there are also relationship +++, power +++++ and difference in ranks(do not remeber how much).
So if you are talking about inviting non-dejure dukes as a king - then you will most likely have to DOW them. de jure dukes will easily submit to their emperor.

 

[nyah]

At least while you're fighting the rebels another independence faction won't form. If you release them you could get a demand from another set of vassals a few months later. Then when you've won the war you get a relations boost with all your vassals.

Besides. This is almost certain to be fixed to make it less easy to invite the newly independents back.