To contest air superiority or no to . . .

[Tisifoni12]

All was quiet on the Eastern front while the Soviet army contributed to knocking the Empirre of Japan out of the war.
But with my attention back on the Germans I find a huge deficit in fighter aircraft.
So, should I have ceased air operations on that front ?

 

[Secret Master]

Need more info before making an informed decision.

Are Luftwaffe numbers down? Are kill ratios favorable to you? Are wings losing or gaining XP? Where are you in terms of techs and doctrines versus the Luftwaffe? Can you afford to expand production (enough rubber and aluminum)?

 

[Tisifoni12]

It's more of a general question as to whether I should have contested air superiority over the front, or kept my aircraft back waiting for the offensive to come ?

I had kind of taken my attention off that front, other than the odd check that the ground war was quiet, and was focused on East Asia.

Luftwaffe numbers may be down, but not as down as the red air force. All doctrines, researching Yak, with Japan clearly on its way to defeat I whacked up fighter production to 30.

 

[Secret Master]

I always consider gaining and keeping air superiority worth my time and effort when facing the Germans as the Soviets. But I'm also the kind of guy that would probably have 45+ MIC on planes by 1941 with the goal of further expanding production as rubber and aluminum allow.

I'm also aware that when facing the AI, even with terrible Soviet debuffs on planes, I'll be able to beat the Luftwaffe on a per-plane basis. So, even if I'm outgunned for the first three months, I'll still be getting enough kills to win the air war in the long run. And with the fighting over friendly territory, I won't lose as much wing XP as the Germans, giving me a further advantage.

If you have the fuel, I don't see any advantage to holding planes back as long as you are killing more than you are losing.

 

[bERt0r]

Train your planes to full XP then put them all into one sector. See if you can win against the Germans in one Sector. I don't think the AI is smart enough to concentrate its air force.

 

[Tisifoni12]

They were all in one sector, the Germans barely got out of Eastern Poland and I had managed to push them back out of Ukraine, so it was all happening over Eastern Poland.

 

[Cavalry]

For me, air is for CAS support land offensive, not to fight for air superiority alone. So you can turn off air elsewhere, and concentrate all fighter and CAS into just one air region that you make an offensive. As long as your CAS can still bomb, it is worth it to pay the air cost.

To maximize this strategy, choose the middle air doctrine, battlefield support, maximize the CAS attack, and maximize speed of fighter for survival.

 

[Qwerlancer]

As a major you should always contest for air superiority. In this case Germany is fighting a 2 fronts war. Even you suffer heavy casualties of air loss you still applied pressure on him. If you give up air he can deal with allied airforces with extra fighters easily while CAS/TAC keep bombing your force.

 

[Jays298]

Generally, as USSR or any underdog, you want to just keep your fighters out of the war until they can at least trade 1 for 1.

Basically don't have them fight against Germany unless you can get green air in a specific air zone. Like Ukraine might be defendable. But not Poland.

That might mean putting your entire air force in one zone, and making a lot of state AA.

But basically if you try to fight them in every zone you will just end up with no fighters or wings that are 5 out of 100.

 

[Tisifoni12]

I think that what I should have done was hold my fighters back over Ukraine and Belarus and built up numbers, only the northern section of the front line being in Poland.

 

[Jays298]

I think that what I should have done was hold my fighters back over Ukraine and Belarus and built up numbers, only the northern section of the front line being in Poland.

Thats what I did, Ukraine, Belarus, and Baltics.

The German fighters will be inefficient due to range limitations.

 

[Corpse Fool]

To maximize this strategy, choose the middle air doctrine, battlefield support, maximize the CAS attack, and maximize speed of fighter for survival.

What? Middle doctrine doesnt help fighter speed/stats, no doctrine boosts cas damage. Middle doctrine does boost the air support boost to ground forces more than other doctrines though.

 

[Cavalry]

What? Middle doctrine doesnt help fighter speed/stats, no doctrine boosts cas damage. Middle doctrine does boost the air support boost to ground forces more than other doctrines though.

Both of these don't help increase CAS land attack? Whatever, increase land troops bonus is good enough, because no other air doctrine do that.

 

[Corpse Fool]

Whatever, increase land troops bonus is good enough, because no other air doctrine do that.

Every other air doctrine do that, lol. Just none quite as good as battlefield support

 

[Cavalry]

Every other air doctrine do that, lol. Just none quite as good as battlefield support

So some say Air support mission only help air war, not ground attack. In that case strategic destruction may be better.

 

[Corpse Fool]

So some say Air support mission only help air war, not ground attack.

I have no idea what might lead them to make such statements. This could be very easily tested, if one wanted to (and people have done that testing in previous versions).

In that case strategic destruction may be better.

I'd say it is better because it helps your fighters, and your naval bombers, some combination of more and earlier in the tree.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Both of these don't help increase CAS land attack? Whatever, increase land troops bonus is good enough, because no other air doctrine do that.

View attachment 805745


View attachment 805746

Air Support Mission Efficiency is the number of planes that actually fly missions out of the planes you have assigned to the mission. If you have full air region coverage and the weather is good, this should usually be at 100% anyway. You can't have more than 100% of your planes flying, after all.

Ground Support is the buff your divisions get when fighting under friendly air superiority, not the damage the actual planes do themselves.

Air Superiority is the debuff that enemy divisions get to defense and speed when under enemy air superiority.

It's all very confusing, and I'm not even 100% certain that what I'm saying here is completely right. I'm 99% sure, but I could be mixing something up.

 

[Cavalry]

Air Support Mission Efficiency is the number of planes that actually fly missions out of the planes you have assigned to the mission.

The game have problem with translation. It seems that there are other Mission Efficiency in doctrines that boost stats of planes doing the mission, like naval things too.
---------------------------------
The mission efficiency of a wing influences what percentage of its planes can actually carry out the assigned missions. Note this is different from mission-specific modifiers like Air Superiority Mission Efficiency described below.

For some mission types, there are modifiers improving their effectiveness which are also called "mission efficiency": Air Superiority Mission Efficiency, Interception Mission Efficiency, Air Support Mission Efficiency, and Naval Mission Efficiency. They improve the following stats of aircraft executing the respective mission type:

• Agility
• Air Attack
• Air Defense
• Naval Agility
• Naval Attack

Air missions - Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki

hoi4.paradoxwikis.com

 

[Tisifoni12]

Pulled my air cover back to defend Ukraine and Belarus, built my fighter wings back to full strength and launched a 1st April offensive.
Meanwhile Allied / Axis stalemate in Sub-Saharan Africa.
After initial success, over 6,000 German fighters appear, twice my fighter numbers, attack falters . . .

Another abandoned game . . .

 

[blahmaster6k]

Pulled my air cover back to defend Ukraine and Belarus, built my fighter wings back to full strength and launched a 1st April offensive.
Meanwhile Allied / Axis stalemate in Sub-Saharan Africa.
After initial success, over 6,000 German fighters appear, twice my fighter numbers, attack falters . . .

Another abandoned game . . .

What do your fighters look like? Are they upgraded?