Colonel Warden said:
Most funny thing is that there was never a problem with Paras in our game.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Most funny thing is that there was never a problem with Paras in our game.
Colonel Warden said:
Maybe. You see, I am sort of playing against myself here, because I was supposed to be playing the Japs next time we play HOI
. The shortening of the range of planes is a positive change, but then long range fighters can be used ... Naturally that would give the Russians a better chance as they would probably build interceptors anyway.
So if they tech up and bring in long range fighters (and the Japs normally outclass the Russians in air techs), I still think they can do the pounding, drop the paratroops across the entire front, redeploy/whatever ... repeat ad nauseum until you reach Moscow... even if the range of the transports is enough just to attack the nearest province ...
Orthank said:
And? Ideas for many house rules were made based on forum observations not just on our actual gameplay.
Orthank said:
well we never really had an agressive Jap player use this. And its their exploit mainly which is deadly on USSR.
F
The Russians always lag behind everyone else (even Italy if Italy plays right) in air techs, at least that's the impression I get in our games. Does that really have any basis in history? Maybe in future HOI patches it would be nice if they started out with slightly better air techs.
So lets reduce number of air transports/paras to three per country - so that each country can have at least one paratrooper on each front.
But there is one other issue, redeploying - i hope this will be fixed but now you can paradrop, withdrow para unit with redeployement and put there - let say 12 moutaineers with artillery brigades.
But there is one other issue, redeploying - i hope this will be fixed but now you can paradrop, withdrow para unit with redeployement and put there - let say 12 moutaineers with artillery brigades.
Orthank said:
Yeah, thats an exploit.
If we say surrounded units cannot be redeployed then I feel its absolutely necessary to have something like above.
Orthank said:
yes well 3 would be okay IF they were kept on different fronts. Can we make anybody actually do that?
As to the redeployment of 12 units into a newly conquered terrain - yes thats a big issue too... I would suggest that you cant redeploy any units there unless you have troops in the nearby territory - and only then deploy a max of 3 in the first day/week ???
F
Fiendix said:
Something different. How about not deploying until land troops from a sorrounding territory actually get there first.
boromir said:
You mean not to deploy units in newly conquered (using paratroopers) territorries until land units will get there? It makes some sense.
According to number of paratroopers, i think you should be allowed to keep them(those for example three units) all together or on separate fronts without limitations.
Orthank said:
I would prefer 2 - three is too much IMHO - but I will go with whatever the majority says.
F
Orthank said:Well i remember especially one game. I was playing Scotland, Boromir Navarra, and Fiendix Kiev - after i annexed England and half of France boys decided that setup was inbalanced and we shouldn't continue the game
But as we are on HoI forum i hope we are going to play HoI 1.06b. 5 players game can be also balanced, my proposal is:
- Germany Japan vs. Allies and Comintern, points should be counted separately for each alliance.
- two axis
- two allies
- one comintern
- Germany and Japan may tech share without limits with all non-player axis countries.
- Allies may tech share without limits with all non-player allies countries
- SU the same with comintern countries.
- Japan cannot separately declare war on USSR, has to join Axis first. Although can dow Allies or any neutral countries like USA.
- UK or Germany can take military control over any country that is an ally.
- France units (land/air/naval) cannot be withdrow from european France as long as Vichy or Vive la France event appear.
- Italy there are no restrictions according to Italy, Germany can take military control any time after Italy joins Axis.
- Resources can be sent to any coutry during war/peace, supplies only to an ally country if at war with major power. SU can get supplies from allies after war with Axis.
- encircled units cannot be str. redeploy or disband;
- time limit is 31 of december 1944.
How about some of these?
I have addressed some of these before, but very well, I will do so again ... the new stuff you suggest is:
1) separate victory points for the 3 sides
2) military control for all allied AI countries
3) end game date of 1944
4) no redeploy for surrounded units
1) is ok
2) depends on the setup, if its for a 3 allied vs 2 axis game it may be too much in favour of the allies
3) too early, a better date is the historic Japanese surrender date, August 14th, 1945
4) what worries me here is that this will hurt the Soviets the most, especially with effective use of paratroops. It will also make the situation very tough for them in the Far East. So paratroops and transports should be limited to 2 to avoid too much of this. And no redeploy to paratroop newly conquered territory until a normal land unit reaches it first.
1) separate victory points for the 3 sides
2) military control for all allied AI countries
3) end game date of 1944
4) no redeploy for surrounded units
1) is ok
2) depends on the setup, if its for a 3 allied vs 2 axis game it may be too much in favour of the allies
3) too early, a better date is the historic Japanese surrender date, August 14th, 1945
4) what worries me here is that this will hurt the Soviets the most, especially with effective use of paratroops. It will also make the situation very tough for them in the Far East. So paratroops and transports should be limited to 2 to avoid too much of this. And no redeploy to paratroop newly conquered territory until a normal land unit reaches it first.
Normally there was a possibility that Japanese was at war only with SU - here it's impossible, have to join Axis first (so be in war with Allies as well).
Paratroopers, as i sad, i just finished a game playing as SU. Japanese player had Six paratrooper units on my front and was able to put new units immediatelly after paradrop, also could withdrow paratroopers with strategic redeployement, had improved/advanced tactical bombers. Eventhough it tooked him 14 months to get to Moscow' gates.
So if we apply the rules:
- no redeployement units FROM and TO newly conquered provinces with paratroopers then it should be ok and completely not exploitish.
Let also other speak how much do they want to reduse paratroopers (amount and rules).
Military control of allies (and tech share with them) should depence on number of players ofcourse.
I doubt if we ever reach even 43year.
- there is a question about US presidential elections.
- and RM pact (i think that limited should be forbidden, i.e. full or none).
Paratroopers, as i sad, i just finished a game playing as SU. Japanese player had Six paratrooper units on my front and was able to put new units immediatelly after paradrop, also could withdrow paratroopers with strategic redeployement, had improved/advanced tactical bombers. Eventhough it tooked him 14 months to get to Moscow' gates.
So if we apply the rules:
- no redeployement units FROM and TO newly conquered provinces with paratroopers then it should be ok and completely not exploitish.
Let also other speak how much do they want to reduse paratroopers (amount and rules).
Military control of allies (and tech share with them) should depence on number of players ofcourse.
I doubt if we ever reach even 43year.
- there is a question about US presidential elections.
- and RM pact (i think that limited should be forbidden, i.e. full or none).
Orthank said:
Roosevelt has to be elected.
The RM pact, maybe.
Most of this can be decided before/in-game.
boromir said:
Roosevelt has to be elected if there are three allies vs. two axis - i also think so. But how about six players game?
RM pact if Germans propose limited pact reduce USA WE by 10, and gives to SU nothing ( i mean only those crappy eastern Poland ), still SU gots 5% dissent reduction.
I wrote bove together because i think they might be connected, i.e. for example if Germans porposes limited pact or none then USA should have possibility not to chose Roosevelt. But if full pact is proposed then ofcourse Roosevelt.
Them paras
Just a neutral observers comments.....
Paratroopers in HOI give a chance to solve the ridiculous travel times introduced in 1.06 (3 months or more for some provinces even with 34 infra)...
However they are not a wonder weapon... They are expensive in MP and IC , require tranport planes AND air superiority (otherwise them expensive transports get whacked)..... they are relatively easy to defend against in large provinces and usually wont be used to drop on any large stack...
1.06b has reduced the range of planes (such that some air transport units will not even be able to drop paras into adjacent provinces when provinces are large) and increased ground units air defense, so all air units are much less effective...
therefore you may want to play at least one 1.06b game before taking a decision re paras..
Re soviet air tech....... the reason it is usually poor is because soviet players tend to tech up land like mad.... you often see soviets having better infantry and even overall land tech than Germany by 1940 nowadays..... Of course this means they neglect air tech and pay the price...... rewarding this soviet "oversight" by putting restraints on the axis may not be the right way to go.... perhaps the soviets need to learn to better balance their forces ?
Just a neutral observers comments.....
Paratroopers in HOI give a chance to solve the ridiculous travel times introduced in 1.06 (3 months or more for some provinces even with 34 infra)...
However they are not a wonder weapon... They are expensive in MP and IC , require tranport planes AND air superiority (otherwise them expensive transports get whacked)..... they are relatively easy to defend against in large provinces and usually wont be used to drop on any large stack...
1.06b has reduced the range of planes (such that some air transport units will not even be able to drop paras into adjacent provinces when provinces are large) and increased ground units air defense, so all air units are much less effective...
therefore you may want to play at least one 1.06b game before taking a decision re paras..
Re soviet air tech....... the reason it is usually poor is because soviet players tend to tech up land like mad.... you often see soviets having better infantry and even overall land tech than Germany by 1940 nowadays..... Of course this means they neglect air tech and pay the price...... rewarding this soviet "oversight" by putting restraints on the axis may not be the right way to go.... perhaps the soviets need to learn to better balance their forces ?
re: para - true I havent played mp with 1.06b so they may work a little differently. However it IS easy to block enemy air units and then skip next to them with transport planes & paras. Furthermore a tactic of cutting off the east coast is exploitive IMHO. This could make it happen less.
Also on matter of interest - you can "technically" load paras on fighters. I had that happen in one game against the computer. Dont remember how I did it (I was playing with stacks of planes), but I had 11 interceptors with a paratrooper icon and in the same zone a transport in a seperate stack onto which I loaded the para - but he did not have the para icon.
Anyways nerfing them to 2 per country is okay for the start - if we later feel that they are not as good as previously we can add onto the limit.
re: soviet air tech - dont really agree with you as per our games - last mp game I had with Orthank the russians had basic rocket fighters + the most of the same land techs that the germans had. If there were more players my victory would not have been so "easy" - actually it was quite a challange. Tomar you would find that our lan games look very different to the HOI-PA games.
On a different topic - since Maschadow is back on the 28th - do we play HOI 1.06b/c (if it gets out..?) or continue the EU2 game?
F
Also on matter of interest - you can "technically" load paras on fighters. I had that happen in one game against the computer. Dont remember how I did it (I was playing with stacks of planes), but I had 11 interceptors with a paratrooper icon and in the same zone a transport in a seperate stack onto which I loaded the para - but he did not have the para icon.
Anyways nerfing them to 2 per country is okay for the start - if we later feel that they are not as good as previously we can add onto the limit.
re: soviet air tech - dont really agree with you as per our games - last mp game I had with Orthank the russians had basic rocket fighters + the most of the same land techs that the germans had. If there were more players my victory would not have been so "easy" - actually it was quite a challange. Tomar you would find that our lan games look very different to the HOI-PA games.
On a different topic - since Maschadow is back on the 28th - do we play HOI 1.06b/c (if it gets out..?) or continue the EU2 game?
F
As I mentioned in our EU2 thread, its best to finish the EU2 game ASAP. Preferably before Maschadow gets back ... also, it may be interesting if we can get a EU2 game with more than 6 players going