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Hister

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Any tips from the get go would be welcome. I haven't played AoD much (neither any HoI series) so I consider myself a newbie player who hasn't figured the more medium to advanced aspects of the game.

Don't tell me not to play Japan - I'm in love with them ;) I fired a Japan game and I think I did some things wrong so I'm eager to hear some advice.

In general I'm more interested in what should I do immediately at the start of the Japan campaign and what should I be doing until the Marco Polo incident fires? My goal is to win the war in China and only after that is done engage in the rest of the Pacific.


- Is blocking supplies, oil and rares in the auto trader window a proper tactic for this country?
BTW, blocking exports doesn't work properly in 1.7 since there is still some amount of the blocked resource that is being traded away. Has just been reported in the vanilla bugs thread.


- How much import focus should I set for what resources?
I haven't grasped yet how the mechanics for this slider works. What does it mean in actual supplies amount if I set the import focus for it to the maximum? Will the AI seek to focus all the intention towards getting this resource and in process neglect other resources? What's the general balanced approach to this game element?


- How much supplies and oil should I strive to accumulate before the war with China begins and how much after that? 10.000? 20.000? 30.000?


- Am I suppose to get rid of any obsolete ships when the campaign starts?
I'm thinking about auxiliary ships and old models. What ships do you usually get rid of from the get go if any? I got rid of existing auxiliary ships and two extra low range DD's.


- How do you organise ships you start with?
I made 2 main Surface Action Group (SAG) fleets, 1 Carrier Task Force, 4 secondary SAG's and various submarine wolf packs. I try to assemble them together according to each ships range so that Carrier task Group and main surface fleets have ships with the longest range while other SAG's have less range.

Two main fleets each consists of 3 BB, 1 CVL, 1 BC, 6 CL and 6 DL (destroyers).

Carrier Task Force has 3 CV (at first only one but later on 2 more are commissioned by event), 2 CA, 2 CL and 7 DL (destroyers with the biggest range).

Secondary SAG's have 1 BC, 3 CA, 2 CL and 8DL/DD (btw, what's the difference between DL and DD destroyers?).

Various submarine packs have up to 6 submarines. I put together subs with the same range.

Is this a reasonable composition?

I'm not sure what should I made of the main ship/screen ratio since in vanilla 1 DD unit amounted for I don't know how many actual ships but in CORE each DD makes one single ship. Have the naval mechanics in CORE been nerfed somehow to compensate for this or not? What I try to say is that in vanilla you are fine if you assign 1 DD for 1 capital ship as far as main ship/screen ratio mechanics go but the same reasoning can't be applied in CORE right? So how many DD's should I add for each BB/BC/CA/CV/CVL?


- How many convoy and escort assembly lines should be running from the beginning of the campaign? Is maybe one serial for convoys and one for escorts enough or would 2 serials of convoys be a better choice? Do you have to have this production running from the beginning or can I pospone that for later times since I see I have plenty of convoys available at the start?


- What is the best choice for my goals when officers make a mutiny in 1936? I chose not to kill them but those damn buggers were making regular dissent until they staged a coup in 1937 and I had to completely reform the government. I hadn't had enough force to start the war when Marco Polo happened (chose peace option) and this pissed those buggers off.


- How much IC and infrastructure is reasonable to start building in the beginning of the game? I suppose I overdid it since I had no spare IC to build any actual divisions to prepare myself for attack on China (reason why I haven't chosen the war path with China).


- If one want's to wage war when Marco Polo fires how many divisions should be in the production from the get go? Besides infantry are there any other units that should be built from the start like CV's maybe?


My issue is to be able to balance out all those aspects of the game so that I can wage a successful campaign in China and also be prepared for Pacific war so any answers on my questions will be highly welcome.

P.S. I won't have access to internet until Thursday so I won't be able to make any comments until then. Hope I find some valuable advice when I get back :D
 

Tegetthoff

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I´ll try to answer a few of your questions...

First of all, as a modder I no longer play the game, I watch hands-off games and improve on what I see. So my advice is somewhat outdated, as there are many improvements to CHI and JAP in 0.50.20 and I have never tested playing JAP with the new changes.

Regarding IC, your aim is to exceed 120 and get a 7th tech team. This can be achieved by one IC run in Tokyo (IC concentration factors help a lot), maybe aided by infra in Tokyo and Osaka.

When playing Japan, I usually put down one run of infantry, maybe a second one of reserve (pre war). Remember, it is fairly easy to beat China if you neglect naval construction. You will pay for this in the Pacific war - unless you go for the long walk to Moscow instead.

There is no particular reason to win early in China, when at peace you loose a lot of available IC and the conquered Chinese territory does not compensate for that.

Regarding naval construction, look at the historical times to lay down the ships and try to do better. You have to build the two Yamatos and the two Shokakus to just match the historical Japanese performance, plus something like 20+ destroyers and 10+ subs.

By now you have construction events for three light carriers and the Hiyo/Junyo carrier conversions, wait for those as they are quite economical.

Regarding events, I usually choose the top "historical" version, especially in the 2-2-6 coup.

Best Regards

T.
 

Hister

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Okay, back home again.

Wohoo, thanx Teg for those useful tips! Much appreciated.

Some questions remain to be answered (others I kind'a figured it out by playing the game more) so I'll repost them and hope some nice soul devotes a bit of time answering them.

- Am I suppose to get rid of any obsolete ships when the campaign starts?

- How do you organise ships you start with?

- How many screens should I add for each BB/BC/CA/CV/CVL?

- How many convoy and escort assembly lines should be running from the beginning of the campaign?

...and that's it.

This game rulz!
 

Tegetthoff

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Regarding getting rid of ships:
I studied the historical dispoal of ships by the Japanese navy and identified about 10 destroyers that were retired to escort duty around 1940. The AI will retire the ships or rather convert them to escorts at that time. So this is your historical answer.

In game terms, you may consider to retire your oldest destroyer classes, best idea is to convert them to escorts.

Ship organisation:
You will be fighting China in mid 1937, but almost any composition of ships is enough to defeat their navy. For the real war, I usually combine my ships into either two or three task forces that have an even distribution of Carriers and BBs/BCs. Maybe the best I can think of for the 1941 war is:
1 smaller task force, say 2 CVs and 4 BBs to cover any operations against the British in Malaya and the Dutch in the DEI
A large task force with 4 CVs and 4-6 BBs/BCs to cover the operations against the US in the Pacific islands and the Phillipines
A small task force, with either CVLs or a spare CV, CAs or a spare BB/BC against the Australians in the Solomons/New Guinea
Move the smaller CV force into the Pacific when done with the Brits

1 screen per heavy unit is still the hard-coded rule

You have three convoy assembly lines at game start that conform more or less to the historic Japanese ship production. Start escort runs when you can afford them. You won´t be able to do so initially.

Two extra CVs to keep the allies out of your shipping lanes are more important than a couple of dozen escorts that only get sunk.

Enjoy!

T.
 

Denniss

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Japan has some very old CL/CA in service, CL-1/2 and CA-1/2 with pre-WW1 firecontrol system. I'd get rid of them as there's no real use for them and the firecontrol brigade does not upgrade for better stats. If there are some SS-1 around get rid of them as well (too short-legged). Very old/low-ranged DD are best used as escorts.
For armies you should develop a brigade strategy i.e. which division gets what brigade type. For JAP I suggest to use artillery for INF and marines, mountaineers work good with pioneers (personally I dislike using artillery for them). HQ should get AA, GAR police. You should decide whether to invest in developing tanks or not.
 

Blecky

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When planning your fleet composition you should be aware that CL´s in CORE don´t have any sub-fighting capability.
 

Hister

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That's awesome, thanx chaps!

1 screen per heavy unit is still the hard-coded rule
Since this is not supposed to be WAD in this mod's case have there been any ideas to change this in the future patches? Maybe Radu can deliver something here? Otherwise I like having 1DD = 1DD philosophy. Puts things in better perspective.

Do you know a real-world WW2 CL carrying depth charges ?
Well I thought CAG's role was also to hunt subs but seems I was wrong. There's so much to learn.

Study, garden, house chores and my girlfriend were taken care of today so I can sneak behind the enemy lines (aka my girl and my mother in law) and start having some sweet lovin' with this pearl.

New campaign this time based on your suggestions with the new patch. Cudos to devs for making this game.

P.S. I'm not supposed to build any separate naval brigades currently due to 1.7 exe bug right?

P.S.2 Is it worth to build battlecruisers? Aren't they a thing from the past?
 
Last edited:

jonesuk

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I love playing Japan with CORE cos its pretty hard. I try to start building a line of infantry divisions as soon as i can, as well as separate brigades to attach to some divisions that will be fighting in China that are useful. I still like the blob of 3 inf divisions with at least one with an engineer. Cav usually get a modernish light armour. Also make sure you update your Cavs in the tech tree (something which i ignore with other countries), and Cavs can really make a difference in China. I will also try to get a line of Marines going as well, and if i get a chance, maybe mountaineers - but these arent absolutely essential.

Peace time modifiers in CORE hit Japan pretty hard, so spare IC is like gold. I try to get a factory or two around and in TOkyo as well as infra up around there. After marco polo, it becomes slightly easier.

As for Navy, i'm still a bit of n00b, even though i have been playing and loving CORE for a couple of years now. Just remember, for China, dont mobilise your whole navy, cos its a bit of a waste of oil. Maybe a coupe of smallish fleets will take of the Yellow Sea. But with CORE, the build times are increased to make it more realistic. So if you are gonna need more transports (for troops not resources), make sure you build early and serially. Also, if you intend to take on the US fleet, you're gonna need a bigger boat, so start early with your CVs or CVL/CVEs. Defo before start of 1939.

My main early aim with Japan is to defeat China efficiently (but not necessarily too early) and be in place to launch simultaneous invasions of Singapore, Phillipines, Borneo, Guam and Wake Island come 1940. If you are running low on oil, defeating and annexing the Netherlands is an early must as you can take their vast oil stocks. To achieve this, China needs to subdued IC wise before they start pumping out hundreds of divisions. My go to tactic is to use my allies divisions in the north to hold the line and then a massive amphibious assault on two or three coastal provinces. Drive west to create pockets. If you manage to get halfway across China, its only a matter of time, but remember, if you finish the Chinese quickly and go back to peace for a year or two to build up, your IC is going to take a big hit.
 

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Okay, so if I get you right you have one serial of infantry, you build separate brigades,a serial of marines and if possible one of mountaineers. On top of that you build factories (how many serials - one or more?) and infrastructure in more then one area. You are also building troop transports and convoys. Holy Moly, how much ICV goes into your production?

When I started this second try according to suggestions given here I managed to have 3 lines of convoys, 1 factory line in Tokyo, 2 lines of infra in Tokyo and Osaka, 1 line of infantry with artillery, 1 line of reserve with artillery (is it feasible to give reserve divisions artillery brigade?) and that is it. Only smallish IC amount was left for upgrades. I was getting +20/30 supplies, I set the research speed to 75% (most economical ratio), gave only 3 dinari to intelligence, army slider payment was set to 90%. I was putting my sliders towards central planning. What slider positions are most suitable to strife for with Japan?

I managed to play the game to the point when war with Shanxi starts but I lack serious infantry power there while there are more men waiting on Taiwan to open a second front. I haven't managed to build additional troop transports so I lack them to make an amphibious attack. Looks like I'll have to stall a bit before my troop transports are built and more infantry divisions are ready.

So if I go West with amphibious divisions won't the Chinese cut their supply route and in turn destroy my divisions?


I enjoyed immensely this second run so thanx again to the core team for wonderful work.
 

bestmajor

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(mostly) from vanilla

start to build one row of light tanks in 1938, brigaded with what you can afford then (usually armored cars), these are expensive but pay off later

try to have modern destroyers for your convoys (not certain if this has been changed in CORE)

last: try my "japan improved" :D - but be aware that you have only one (!) count Terauchi then, not two or three.

EDIT: ah yes, infra is important in AoD, esp in Tokio
 

amallric

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Build only light cruisers and nothing else. In the current state of the game this unit is undefeatable. They are faster than any other naval unit therefore they will close up and destroy any fleet. Since they are faster then carriers they will close up and destroy them, and against battleship fleets they will suffer more damage but are still superior because they don't need screens and have a much lesser stacking penalty.
 

Hister

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I played the game some more and it really shows up when war IC starts going on - I'm building a lot of stuff now, managed to push Chinese to those first rivers and am holding that front while I launched an amphibious attack in Shanghai and one other southern province.

Only one more IC needs to be built before I get the 7th team. I have 1 Tokyo IC serial, 1 infra serial in Osaka, 3 serials of infantry, 1 serial of security, 1 serial of mountaineers, 1 serial of troop transports, those 3 convoy serials still going on, 1 serial of latest CV, 1 serial of latest BB, one serial of CA, one serial of latest CL, 2 serials of latest DD. All this at the same time when I still manage to upgrade obsolete units/brigades constantly, filling up the fallen men and getting some supplies although the war is raging on.

This is so sweet!

What's the deal with light cruisers? Are they fubar in vanilla also or just in core?
 

amallric

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I think the problem lies in the japanese cruiser fire support brigade. Maybe its stats would need some adjustement to the new AoD naval combat mechanics. Against carriers, cruisers manage to close up because they're faster, and then thay can do a lot of damage with their 30 or so naval attack. Against BBs, they are weaker but suffer much less stacking penalty for the same power. You can still beat them but at an expensive cost.
 

Hister

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An issue for devs to check then.
 

Hister

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As said I'm having a blast in china. The year is now August 1940 and I'm finally seriously kicking some Chinese ass there. I had to wait for enough troops to come of the assembly line to be able to open the 3rd front which tipped the previous stalemate on my side. Half of China has been occupied now, only the East remains with their newly established capital.

As suggested I checked if Chinese had any convoy routes (load as them) but they hadn't so that was the reason why my subs haven't sunk anything, lol.

Chinese had some 1937 interceptors which seriously hurt my bombers. I'm wondering if these weren't the American planes and pilots manning them - does China AI get to choose that option?

One strange thing I noticed was when I loaded as Chinese that their reserve unit/s had a recconnasanse brigade which showed up as an armoured car. Isn't it a bit of that they can't even produce regular infantry while they can build armoured cars? Maybe just a wrong pic was assigned to this brigade, worth checking.

As already noted before the interdiction mission made by my 1936 tactical bombers is to powerful since infra goes down way to fast.

I suppose I'm not handling the interceptors properly yet since they haven't been able to shot down any Chinese interceptors who were kicking my tactical bomber's asses. I set them to air interdiction but those buggers always missed the enemy. I find them hardly useful but as I said - maybe I'm doing something wrong here.
 
Last edited:

Tegetthoff

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The Chinese had their own airforce in 1937, augmented by Russian planes and pilots due to operation Zet. The American "Flying Tigers" came in somewhat later (1941).
 

Hister

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Oh I see!

I edited my above post (added new question)...
 

Blecky

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... I suppose I'm not handling the interceptors properly yet since they haven't been able to shot down any Chinese interceptors who were kicking my tactical bomber's asses. I set them to air interdiction but those buggers always missed the enemy. I find them hardly useful but as I said - maybe I'm doing something wrong here.
INT have a much harder time of spotting enemy squadrons without the help of radar than they did in HOI 2. To increase your interception chances you should use more (and maybe smaller ) groups in a single territory in an offensive fighter sweep until you´ve engaged the enemy airplanes. It will take them quite a while to recover and your bombers can do their work unharmed.