Tips for beginner germany player

[$ilent_$trider]

I was trying to find a relatively new thread but didn't find any.
Mostly, I want tips on how to conquer the UK hopefully before 1941 in SP.

For what is worth, I can get Danzig or War in early 39 and can conquer Poland and France by late spring - early summer of 39.
The problem is dealing with the UK permanently.
Here some bullet points on what I'm doing:

• With the new restrictions on number of special troops, I pretty much disband my mountaineers and start training marines at some point, but I never get enough air superiority for a naval invasion.
• I've been building heavy fighters en masse (I can get 1k by the start of the war), because I know they are better on taking down the Strategic bombers that UK is going to send, should I be building fighters instead?
• I begin research on Panzer III (MARM 1941) ASAP so when I get the URSS treaty I'll get the bonus for the research on Panzer IV (MARM 1943) by 1939.
• I start rolling back my armored template from LARM to MARM little by little. Would this be the right approach or should I just copy the template and replace every LARM with MARM when I get enough tanks in reserve? (for what is worth, I keep a 20 width template with 4 MARM, 2 MOT and 2 SPART.

I appreciate any tips and anything that you think would be interesting that I didn't mention (maybe because I wasn't even aware).

 

[Bunnytob]

If you want to take the UK, the answer is NAV NAV NAV.

CAS can't hurt either.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

So, you mean, I don't have to care that much with fighters to fight their strategic bombers anyway?
Because I will be able to invade them quickly?
I forgot to mention I update the naval invasion tech to make sure I can invade with an entire army and then transport the rest across.
In that case, how many MIC for each aircraft?
Right now I'm doing 15 for Heavy Fighters and 5 for CAS. I was only keeping one or two for NAV but I guess I could change the distribution around.

 

[Casko]

After you've conquered France and/or Benelux region, your best bet is to fill North Sea, Eastern North Sea, and English Channel with a whole flood of Fighters, CAS, and either Tactical bombers or NAV, and limit your Offensive fleet to North Sea regions mentioned beforehand. then simply wait for a while. as in current state of the game, the land based air wings will absolutely Obliterate any surface fleet the AI can field.

Keep in mind that you'll loose quite a few of your Bombers to Naval AA. but afterwards you'll gain naval supremacy soon enough for a naval invasion. and after you make a beachhead, quickly push down to London and British isles should be yours in no time, just make sure to guard your port initially so that you don't get cut out of supplies.

 

[Bunnytob]

Well... Strat Bombers shouldn't be a problem if you have enough fighters, BUT you really can't ignore them. Really, you should have at least 30 MIC on fighters (heavy or light, I guess) and CAS combined with at least 10 per. I tend to neglect NAV (and I'm not alone in this) but if you need to clear the Channel then allocate MIC to NAV in double digits.

Spoiler: Please forgive me for this.

 

[a_sophist]

I've done an early-mid '39 Sea Lion several times this patch, but it requires tactics that are arguably exploits, though they really come down to how bad the UK AI is more than using mechanics in an unintended manner. Ideally you want around 4.5-5k fighters and 1k cas/tac by mid-'39, which is doable if you assign 10 factories to fighters and 5 to another plane of your choice from day 1 and add to those as you acquire military factories (when using this strategy I don't build civs, it's mils until a roughly historical Anschluss and then refineries until Britain is done). That number of planes will be enough for clear air superiority over northern france, the Channel, and Southern England, which lets you paradrop on and around the Dover port (I use 12-14 10 width paratroopers w/ engineers and artillery). Though the convoy interception exploit has been fixed somewhat, it's still the case the convoys can slip past while naval combat is going on, so the important issue at this point is dividing up the allied navies. This is accomplished by taking Case Anton the day after Vichy is formed. You don't even need to race down to the port; you'll get a ton of ships anyway and the RN will spread out to confront them in the Mediterranean. At this point bring your starting fleet to the Channel (I just build what's already queued and then put everything on battleships) and hop across from Calais. It's possible you'll still lose a division or two, but if you don't take Case Anton you will lose everything (I've tried both ways ~10 times, so not a great sample size but I've been able to repeat this successful method every time since I figured it out).

If you want a safer, more realistic, though certainly more drawn out process, you can follow the above advice and spam NAV to destroy the Royal Navy, ideally using convoys as naval battle bait. There have been posts of players finishing the job in late 1940 or so, so it's still doable before Barbarossa, but there's always a chance the US could take Destroyers for Bases in time, which prevents you from starting a war with the US on your terms, and once the UK is gone having a bunch of NAV is pretty useless unless you're doing a WC and need to kill a late game IJN, at which point you'll have so many factories and the ability to produce 1944 planes that they won't be so useful anyway.

Regarding division types I make essentially 3: the above paratrooper template, 14/4 inf/art with engineers and support art, and 9/5/4 tank/mot/spg (edit: with recon, engineers, artillery, and signals), and I use Panzer IIs against the allies and switch to Panzer IVs for the Soviets.

 

[Doros]

Last time I played Germany, I was able to invade mid-1940. Here are some things I tried that might be useful:

• I used the Naval Air Effort focus to rush Naval Bomber II so I could start building them in 1939. I upgraded them with air experience from the Spanish civil war and Japan-China war to add agility and range.
• I built around 4,000 light fighters and upgraded agility.
• I built radars in the provinces bordering the channel.
• I left one civ trading through the channel to bring out enemy ships.
• I put most of my fighters and bombers on the channel.

I had kill ratios of 3-1 in fighters over the channel and bombed their fleet to oblivion, then moved my fleet in for naval superiority.

The AI suddenly adds thousands of bombers to air superiority once naval combat starts, so it's best to move quickly once you're across the channel.

 

[TT33B]

Paratroopers!

This is only on normal level.

Tried both the sea and para invasions and Paras seem the more reliable at the moment.
Brief outline...
- Have well over 4000 fighters.
- Navy - I build Dest II (3 docks), LC II (2 docks) and HC II (2 docks)from the start, and slowly increase Dockyards (and convoys of course)
- Research earlyish Air Battlefield Support research line so you get all the Air Superiority modifiers
- Once you take France increase air fields on English Channel coast to Max.
- 16 Paras...divided into two groups of 8. 1 drops on the coast west of Portsmouth. The other drops on coast in between Portsmouth and Dover.
- Need 70% Air Superiority in Southern England, English Channel and Northern France. So ALL my fighters are doing Air Superiority to get this.
- Once Paras land and take Ports then most bombers concentrate on English Channel and I send my fleet (set to 'Never Repair') to English channel to 'try' to protect troop transports.
- Once you get a couple of Armies (or most of the 24 units of each anyway) to the ports then it is a cake walk against the AI.

I normally am able to take the UK late '39 early '40.

Just as a side note, my latest game, one lot of Para's was wiped out, and my Navy is down to a LC and 2 destroyers! BUT UK surrended on 3 December 1939.

 

[Black5Raven]

Paratroopers, Paratroopers, Paratroopers.
Just send them in all directions, to all ports! Let them fly like autumn leaves
If you be lucky enough you can defeat France in few days and in month UK (almost without fight on their land as I did)
UK and France can fall even in mid 1938.

 

[afb]

With the new restrictions on number of special troops, I pretty much disband my mountaineers and start training marines at some point, but I never get enough air superiority for a naval invasion.

Invading with only air superiority is extremely risky. Sure, you can get to push the button, but if the Royal Navy catches your transports, all your precious troops will die. You need a competitive navy. So, 1) Get lots of dockyards to crank out ships. 2) start researching naval doctrines early. 3) accept that 1+2 means that your land forces will not be as great as they could be.

I could see a case for going with a carrier fleet. 1) It means that a lot of your heavy lifting will be done by military factories that are more flexible than dockyards and 2) It will help if you ever want to take the fight to the Americans. If you're just looking towards the UK, however, I think it's probably more cost efficient (with tech in particular) to just build a very strong airforce (including naval bombers) and combining it with a decent cruiser/battleship-oriented fleet.

I've been building heavy fighters en masse (I can get 1k by the start of the war), because I know they are better on taking down the Strategic bombers that UK is going to send, should I be building fighters instead?

Heavy fighters have a hard time against the agility of fighters. For Germany I would just spam normal fighters to get air superiority. Maybe have a couple of factories on heavies to help kill strats, but I don't think it's necessary.

I begin research on Panzer III (MARM 1941) ASAP so when I get the URSS treaty I'll get the bonus for the research on Panzer IV (MARM 1943) by 1939.

Panzer III is 1939 and Panzer IV is 1941. I assume you are referring to those? This is not a bad strategy, but there are some costs. You devote a lot of tech early on, which mean you likely won't have the tech bandwidth for also developing your navy. In other words, you are building for taking on the Soviets, not the UK. I won't say you can't rush armor tech and still take on the UK, but it becomes harder.

I start rolling back my armored template from LARM to MARM little by little. Would this be the right approach or should I just copy the template and replace every LARM with MARM when I get enough tanks in reserve? (for what is worth, I keep a 20 width template with 4 MARM, 2 MOT and 2 SPART.

i love this kind of gradual replacement as well. Sure, at first my tank divisions are a little squishy from all those light tanks, but 1) you get more tanks and therefore more divisions and 2) In 1939-1940, light tanks are still decent enough. Soon enough, your light tanks will be spread thinner and thinner, and eventually you won't need them any more. Since artillery got nerfed, I would probably skip the SPART. They use more combat width and have less breakthrough than MARM. Sure, you use less vehicles, but I would rather have the breakthrough than the soft attack and make do with slightly fewer divisions. Only 2 MOT would make them very vulnerable with regards to organization, but since your CW only adds up to 18, assume you mean 3? That is better. You could also consider going 40W with your tank divisions. You get to stack all the good stuff, making them devastating on offense.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

Thanks, I tried last night with the paratroopers (after dismissing my mountaineers) and it didn't go well. I was able to run Case Anton and get France's navy to reinforce mine but unfortunately my navy wasn't strong enough to hold against Britain's and 2/3 of my tanks sank in the englank chank (had to keep the alliteration).
Thanks for the tips.
I'll try it again tonight and try to beef up my navy.
For that matter, you guys think I should get naval innovation anyway or should I just spam Light Cruisers and destroyers?

 

[Bunnytob]

You need more NAV. Generally, spamming BBs is the way to go if you can put air support in.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

Should I try to get the '40 NAV before 1939 or I just spam the '36 then?

 

[Jeremy971]

I started my attack of UK in 1944 with 3000 tact and strat bombers, 2500 light fighters and 1400 Nav bombers. Everything went pretty well. Then, because I'm morron I started the german civil war...

I think it's not possible anymore to invade UK before 1943-1944. They changed their game at ervery patch... So, you have to adapt or die...

 

[Casko]

Should I try to get the '40 NAV before 1939 or I just spam the '36 then?

I personally try to build a stockpile of few hundred+, start to produce them at 1 MIC from day one, as you got bigger priorities, and you don't exactly need NAV after fall of Britain unless you are at war with Japan later on. add 1 or 2 factories once your industrial power has grown to fill up your army's basic needs or you've researched the NAV for 40's.

and if I have time and have gone down the path to get the -50% tech cost reduction I'd go for the '40 NAV at the start of /early 1939. if not, simply using some air XP to upgrade your 36 models for extra speed and reliability.

However if you aim to Blitz Britain I can see logic at producing NAV in larger quantities early, and prep to spam Battleships into your navy rather than screens. Though producing few extra Destroyers and Light Cruisers for their Anti-Submarine use, and Anti Air can be quite helpful as British Navy starts with surprisingly large amount of subs that can if you are unlucky snipe your invasion convoys.

 

[Black5Raven]

I think it's not possible anymore to invade UK before 1943-1944. They changed their game at ervery patch... So, you have to adapt or die...

A week ago i crush France and UK a long time before 1939.
France was fall after few days of war (para in Paris and other major cities)
UK was fall after a week or 2 after invasion in France.
Ironman - so it still possible and requre some luck, air supperiority and as usual - a bit more luck.

 

[a_sophist]

Thanks, I tried last night with the paratroopers (after dismissing my mountaineers) and it didn't go well. I was able to run Case Anton and get France's navy to reinforce mine but unfortunately my navy wasn't strong enough to hold against Britain's and 2/3 of my tanks sank in the englank chank (had to keep the alliteration).
Thanks for the tips.
I'll try it again tonight and try to beef up my navy.
For that matter, you guys think I should get naval innovation anyway or should I just spam Light Cruisers and destroyers?

The most essential thing is timing. If you're waiting for the Anton ships to make it to the Channel you're already taking too long for the truly safe window of opportunity. Their mere existence elsewhere causes the Allied navies to split up, and bringing them to the Channel just means more of a chance that the Allies will re-stack. What I do is have my navy (everything you start with, everything queued for production at the start, plus 1 or 2 battleships) waiting in the closest German port to the channel (Weser-Ems?), and as soon as Case Anton gets fired, the navy gets sent into the Channel, all planes that can bomb plus enough fighters to keep superiority go in as well, and as soon as the ships are in the Channel I send the units across. There's still a chance they get "caught" but in such a scenario with this method I've never had more than 1 division sunk. Because naval battles take so long as well, it's possible that England caps and the war ends before the division is fully destroyed anyway .

 

[$ilent_$trider]

@a_sophist Yes, I noticed that, that the British sent their navy down the mediterranean and I was now able to cross easier.
Thanks for the tips guys, I was able to defeat England by winter of 1939 and I was going really well against the Soviets but forgot that the Republicans had won the civil war and Spain had joined the Comintern, so when I went to see why I was losing MIC I noticed the Spaniards were almost reach Paris.
I know, my fault, but like I said, this has been my first experience playing Germany.
Thanks for all the tips.