Tips for a laid back game.

[Doomstack]

I'm the type of Civ player that plays the game at the second lowest difficulty using the largest map sized archipelago and then win the game through technology. Simply put; I like to play these long lasting, simple and entertaining strategy games. I played about 20 hours so far as the Duke of Holland and so far I was able to create the Kingdom of Frisia. It's been fun, but I was wondering if there was another starting point that would allow me to hang back a bit more (I've been super aggressive as Duke Dirk so far) and get the hang of the game a bit more.

Aside from Ireland, what starting character should I choose? I don't mind being aggressive to expand my kingdom, I just want to slow down the pace a little. I felt like I was rushed as the Duke of Holland (I often had to take immediate advantage by attacking my neighbors when they claimed indepence from the HRE or France).

 

[Cymsdale]

Scotland is pretty simple.

 

[Doomstack]

I've had enough of being a vassal for now. In one of my games as Duke Dirk, I didn't create the Kingdom of Friscia yet, but got most of Flanders. When my current Duke died, all of his lands were split between the sons. So, I lost all of the counties I spent the last couple of hours fighting for. That made me restart the game and try to make the kingdom as fast as possible so I didn't lose it when I died.

 

[Cymsdale]

I've had enough of being a vassal for now. In one of my games as Duke Dirk, I didn't create the Kingdom of Friscia yet, but got most of Flanders. When my current Duke died, all of his lands were split between the sons. So, I lost all of the counties I spent the last couple of hours fighting for. That made me restart the game and try to make the kingdom as fast as possible so I didn't lose it when I died.

This is because you had gavelkind succession. If you want to avoid this, you have to change your succession laws, or deal with the excess sons by making them bishops or killing them off. If you become a duke with gavelkind, it's helpful not to create or usurp extra duke titles, so even if your counties get split up between heirs, all of them will still be vassals under the primary heir.

 

[Comradebot]

I've had enough of being a vassal for now. In one of my games as Duke Dirk, I didn't create the Kingdom of Friscia yet, but got most of Flanders. When my current Duke died, all of his lands were split between the sons. So, I lost all of the counties I spent the last couple of hours fighting for. That made me restart the game and try to make the kingdom as fast as possible so I didn't lose it when I died.

Then be the King of Scotland. I've never, ever, seen Scotland completely fold. I've seen them lose a little territory here or there, but the kingdom always remained.

But really, any independent Kingdom, or large duchy, that doesn't border Muslims. Scotland, England (though only if you start after Stamford Bridge, as a 1066 start as Saxon England requires you to win the war first!), Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, any of the Russian duchies (because the Volga Bulgars aren't the same kind of threat as other Muslims), Poland, Brittany, maybe a Welsh duchy, with a later start date the Duchy of Pomerania can be a blast...

And the options expand if you're willing to step up the challenge a bit, there's also the various Iberian and Sicilian states, and Croatia. All of those will require a little more aggressiveness, though, as being "laid back" will mean Muslims or Byzantines can and will crush you if you don't take them apart first.



And completely agree on Civ. I'd always have the most ridiculously massive maps allowed, and hopefully with multiple continents. Became especially fun in CIV IV with the chance to have colonies become their own, new nations... though sadly, while it was a neat mechanic the majority of colonial nations tended to suck absolute ass. Still, it was fun.

 

[nyah]

I've had enough of being a vassal for now. In one of my games as Duke Dirk, I didn't create the Kingdom of Friscia yet, but got most of Flanders. When my current Duke died, all of his lands were split between the sons. So, I lost all of the counties I spent the last couple of hours fighting for. That made me restart the game and try to make the kingdom as fast as possible so I didn't lose it when I died.

You can reclaim any lost lands easily because you have a strong CB on any that go to a sibling. This might be the case if you are a count and have multiple counties, or a duke and have multiple duchies. The easiest solution if you are a duke is to destroy any duchies you hold except you primary. You can recreate them later when you are ready to become a king. Other than that, if you hold one duchy then your siblings will become your vassals. You might want to imprison and banish them, or otherwise revoke their titles, but it's far from a game-breaker, just another challenge to deal with.

 

[Comradebot]

This is because you had gavelkind succession. If you want to avoid this, you have to change your succession laws, or deal with the excess sons by making them bishops or killing them off. If you become a duke with gavelkind, it's helpful not to create or usurp extra duke titles, so even if your counties get split up between heirs, all of them will still be vassals under the primary heir.

Also, this.

Getting out of Gavelkind isn't always easy (you could die in less than a decade and never have a shot to change the laws with your first ruler), so your first goal should be to become a Duke. Any counties you take should be in the same Duchy, so even when you "lose" them upon succession, they're still your direct vassals.

 

[Doomstack]

This is because you had gavelkind succession. If you want to avoid this, you have to change your succession laws, or deal with the excess sons by making them bishops or killing them off. If you become a duke with gavelkind, it's helpful not to create or usurp extra duke titles, so even if your counties get split up between heirs, all of them will still be vassals under the primary heir.

The second part is how I managed to do it as the Kingdom of Friscia. My son became king, his brothers became his dukes. But it was a race at the end of my character's life to form that kingdom before he passed.

How do you make your excess sons bishops? Wouldn't the sons become Prince-Bishops or something? And, it's not that simple to change the succession laws as a vassal to Primo since the HRE would need to have high crown authority which it hasn't done yet. I could go independent, but I'll be crushed like all of the other civil wars I've seen.

 

[Comradebot]

The second part is how I managed to do it as the Kingdom of Friscia. My son became king, his brothers became his dukes. But it was a race at the end of my character's life to form that kingdom before he passed.

How do you make your excess sons bishops? Wouldn't the sons become Prince-Bishops or something? And, it's not that simple to change the succession laws as a vassal to Primo since the HRE would need to have high crown authority which it hasn't done yet. I could go independent, but I'll be crushed like all of the other civil wars I've seen.

You have to have Free Investiture to make your excess sons bishops. When you have it, and after your sons turn 16, you can go to the religion screen and select "appoint successor" for any bishopric and select your son you want to boot from the line of succession. Pretty sure that alone is enough to prevent them from inheriting anything, and when the current bishop dies they'll take over the bishopric. They won't be Prince-Bishops or anything like that, just regular bishops who just happen to be related to you.

And even under the HRE, you can change to Elective Succession.

 

[OutsiderSubtype]

You can also make your sons bishops by revoking titles to bishoprics and granting them to your sons. This will piss off your other vassals though.

 

[Hootieleece]

Since you are a Vassal of the HRE,Your best bet to get out of gavelkind succession is to change to Elective succession.You can only nominate your sons as bishops if you have Free investiture.....check the religion screen.Otherwise you have to build new temple holdings (waste of gold) and give them to your sons.

Elective will allow you to pick the best member of the Dynasty as heir, but make sure the Dukes(Electors) like you.

 

[delling]

Sweden or Denmark, though I might be biased
It's a bit of a race in the beginning to conquer the pagans around the Baltic and in Finland after that you can keep good relations with your neighbors and relax or ... not, at your leisure.
Oh, as Sweden you need to survive the war with the norse faction in the beginning (or convert Erik very quickly).

 

[Heartsbane]

Saxon England is actually a pretty laid back game. Your avenues of expansion are clearly laid out in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. You don't have to worry about de jure claims from larger powers and I have never seen continental powers show much of an interest in Saxon England. You don't have to worry about the ethnic woes the Normans and Norse have to deal with although the Ducal setup isn't ideal at the start. Once you sort out your vassals you should have a very simple, and slow paced game. You can crusade, expand however you want, build up your fortunes, holdings, tech, and proceed however you want. Saxon England is a pretty casual game, even for the AI and it created some interesting interactions in 1.06 when the Saxon's actually had a chance at winning. Now that the Normans have been buffed they win 9/10 times so you always seem some variation of the 100 years war between England and France. It's too bad paradox decided to take a deterministic approach to the 1066 conquest with 1.07.

Ireland is also a pretty stable game as long as you watch out for Scotland.

Honestly though, as long as you play an independent King, are in complete control of your de jure territory, you don't play as a heresy, maintain good relationships and marriage alliances with the nearby larger powers, and you make a concentrated effort to weaken the Iberian and North African Muslims through Holy Wars and Holy Orders, any game can be pretty laid back. Just try to take good care of your borders.

 

[Ols]

One of the Turkish sultunates that are around past 1300 are good ones to play as, as there are far fewer massive countries around to attack you as you build up.

 

[Heartsbane]

Sweden or Denmark, though I might be biased
It's a bit of a race in the beginning to conquer the pagans around the Baltic and in Finland after that you can keep good relations with your neighbors and relax or ... not, at your leisure.
Oh, as Sweden you need to survive the war with the norse faction in the beginning (or convert Erik very quickly).

Yeah, the Scandanavian countries are pretty beginner friendly. My only issue is the Baltic Pagans problem you mentioned. It can create some really weird borders in the Baltic if you don't act quickly enough.

 

[unmerged(600321)]

Without the Sunset Invasion DLC, Scotland or Ireland can be fairly quiet. You get left alone for the most part and can learn the ropes fairly well. With the Sunset invasion DLC, things could get rough around 1250-1300, but the Aztecs are not all that bad even if they end up hitting you (Aztec are easier to deal with than the Golden Horde or Ilkhanate for those who play on the Eastern side).

The Holy Roman Empire can also be a fun start if you don't want to get too big and want to be left alone. As long as you don't push for Emperorship or independence you can just do your own thing. It is a pain to play under medium or higher crown authority as you cannot grow within the Kingdom, but it can also be fun for one of your early games. The same is true for the Byzantine Empire if you avoid the Eastern side that can get Holy Warred by the Shia Caliph or even invaded by the Mongols (the western side is occasionally Holy Warred, but it is generally much safer).

Ireland is probably best though for a peaceful game, especially without the Sunset Invasion DLC.

 

[Isaios]

Go for Denmark. Then ignore the Pagans in Pommern as they'll get you into trouble with the nasty Germans. Nab the two de Jure provinces when you can (not that difficult) and take Småland and possibly Uppland from Sweden, and the Duchy of Courland from the Pagans, as well as Akershus from Norway. Lots of 5 holding Counties

 

[Bezborg]

I recommend Croatia. It's very easy, good territory with clean borders, marry yourself into alliances with Hungary and the HRE and you're good to go. Make Zadar or Split your cpaital, expand into Serbia and Duklja if you want. I haven't played as Croatia since LOR though, it may be that Byzantium gives you trouble now... Never happened before.

 

[Cymsdale]

You can also make your sons bishops by revoking titles to bishoprics and granting them to your sons. This will piss off your other vassals though.

That's a good last resort, but if you have the money and time you can also just build a new temple and hand it to your son. That's what I like to do until I run out of space.

 

[tuareg109]

I'm the type of Civ player that plays the game at the second lowest difficulty using the largest map sized archipelago and then win the game through technology. Simply put; I like to play these long lasting, simple and entertaining strategy games. I played about 20 hours so far as the Duke of Holland and so far I was able to create the Kingdom of Frisia. It's been fun, but I was wondering if there was another starting point that would allow me to hang back a bit more (I've been super aggressive as Duke Dirk so far) and get the hang of the game a bit more.

Aside from Ireland, what starting character should I choose? I don't mind being aggressive to expand my kingdom, I just want to slow down the pace a little. I felt like I was rushed as the Duke of Holland (I often had to take immediate advantage by attacking my neighbors when they claimed indepence from the HRE or France).

Earl Gofraid of the Isle of Man.
Do it.