Timurids>Yuan>Mughals WC viable?

[Magnificent Genius]

I was ruminating on this last night in the shower. Timurids are Uzbek, which can form both Yuan and Mughals, and if you form Yuan first you can later form Mughals. That's quite a bit of permaclaims. Yuan ideas are pretty baller, with -25% Core Creation cost and 5% Admin efficiency, plus the -10% Core cost from EoC. You also start with a bunch of free-to-integrate vassals, free cores, and plenty of room to expand.

There is only one thing that concerns me. After a certain point, you will be taking huge maluses to shock and fire damage as well as goods produced, and would your massive size be able to compensate for it?

Are there other possible problems I haven't noticed?

As far as Ideas I was planning on going Admin, Influence, Humanist, Quantity, and haven't thought that far ahead.

So, how viable is this concept?

 

[makaramus]

muslims cant be emperor of china... you need to convert hindu or smiler eastern religion (you cant convert animist or tengri like religions)

 

[Bouchart]

You'd probably want to swap out of steppe horde government as soon as you formed Yuan (or Mughals). The cheaper coring costs and permanent claims means the ability to raze isn't as important.

 

[Magnificent Genius]

Hindu is Dharmic. I'll probably go Hindu afterwards though.

EDIT: Timurids are Iqta now. Also, you get Celestial Empire on getting EoC anyway.

 

[bly08]

Manchu -> Qing -> Mughals is a lot better

 

[Magnificent Genius]

Manchu -> Qing -> Mughals is a lot better

How so? Yuan ideas might be the best in the game. Manchu also doesn't have as advantaged a start as Timurids, though I will grant you that you don't have to engage in religious shenanigans multiple times, but you're going to want to go Hindu anyway. I'll take your word for it, I would certainly like some reasoning to back it up though.

 

[bly08]

By Manchu -> Qing I mean Timurids to Manchu to Qing. The Manchu shift doesn't have a religion requirement, shifting to Qing grants free conversion to Confucianism and the Mandate CB along with it, can convert again later if you have the stomach for it. If you shift to Mughals after, I think the overall amount of mana saved is higher than Yuan to Mughals, since shifting to Manchu grants 200ish dev worth of cores, not just claims.

Yuan ideas might look the best, but in practice both Manchu and Mughals' sets are far better since they have unrest reduction.

 

[Rikissa]

Yuan doesn't have +3 Tolerance of Heathens which is a major disadvantage comparing those two idea sets, at least when going for world conquest

 

[ChloePech]

There are a great many idea sets I'd take over Yuan.

There is ONE I would take over Mughals and its the western equivalent, Rum ideas.

Forming Yuan just... Doesnt give you much. Best to go for Mughal ideas asap because of how good they are (and, ya know. Get that Indian cash flow going)

 

[bly08]

Rum ideas aren't close to Mughals, I've seen others say the same thing and I've no idea why. They're a worse version of Ottoman ideas. ToH comes 4th vs. Ottoman tradition, -15% construction cost is worse than trade efficiency/tax until late in the game and probably for WC only.

 

[Rabid]

Couldn't you throw a shift to Mamluks in there while you're at it? You only need to core Cairo and you inherit all their cores.

 

[tip001]

Yuan is a terrible option because of all the land you have to conquer before you can form it. Devs more or less blocked this option for WC as it takes at least 100 years to conquer a lot of shitty land because you need all the sub-cultures in the primary group and at least 2 wars with Ming to get the necessary cores.
Its not even fun as a goal on its own, to form Yuan. Sry

Best normal nation to pick is Timmy though and form Mughals asap. Dont worry about the LD as when 1454 turns around 3 of your biggest vassals can be annexed in 1 sec as you have cores on them. Just save up MP to dev their provinces (which become yours, I even made Renaissance spring in Samarkand) when you are ready to annex. On the forum there is a lot of mayhem about making Timmy weak but thats not really the case looking at cores. Its not a horde anymore which is a downer (see below).

Best nations for quickest WC are still hordes. It takes more management but the razing is OP. Kazan is really nice as it starts in Europe, has a gold mine and has great ideas. Jianzhou is a good second forming Manchu (do never form Qing if you want WC).

Hope this helps

 

[Magnificent Genius]

Back to the important question: can you tank the EoC maluses and still manage the WC? Which is my real concern. I'm probably going to do Yuan anyway because I don't have Back in Control.

 

[makaramus]

Back to the important question: can you tank the EoC maluses and still manage the WC? Which is my real concern. I'm probably going to do Yuan anyway because I don't have Back in Control.

actually you can. in my game I almost conquered half of asia by playing tall and entire russia. I never enacted reforms but I was at positive mandate gain allways. sure having that goverment form sucks but not so much in return of that ideas

I wish there was easy way to get rid of empire of china rank actualyl It would be amazing (I think only way is forming poland and I suppose it WAS and fixed?)

 

[makaramus]

Lol, you can do without the CAPS, it just makes your message silly.

You have some good points though about ideas. But I refer to my reply above yours regarding Yuan as a viable option. In short Yuan is shit because of how you can form it.

Also Confucian is not the holy grail, especially when forming Yuan. Harmonizing takes hundreds of years and till that time you have 50% rel unity or less. Enjoy the rebels or stay at peace till 1650

I stood aganist claim of "yuan got shit ideas" . I admit its not better option to world conquest than mughals because of goverment type and formation. but still I will not let anyone say "yuan ideas are shit" easy like that

 

[Zephyrum]

Rum ideas aren't close to Mughals, I've seen others say the same thing and I've no idea why. They're a worse version of Ottoman ideas. ToH comes 4th vs. Ottoman tradition, -15% construction cost is worse than trade efficiency/tax until late in the game and probably for WC only.

15% construction cost is definetely good for mid game and one faiths. And the latecoming ToHeathen isn't a big deal simce odds are you'll not reform Rum before you have the first few ideas (too much dev to eat, long truces). Most of the time you'll be on 3-4 ideas when you form Rum.

 

[ChloePech]

Rum ideas aren't close to Mughals, I've seen others say the same thing and I've no idea why. They're a worse version of Ottoman ideas. ToH comes 4th vs. Ottoman tradition, -15% construction cost is worse than trade efficiency/tax until late in the game and probably for WC only.

The millitary aspects of Rum ideas are better than both Ottomans and Mughals, Mughals by a long shot. Thats the primary reason why.

 

[bly08]

Are we reading the same set because all I see is 10% morale. How is that "by a long shot" ?

 

[Zephyrum]

Are we reading the same set because all I see is 10% morale. How is that "by a long shot" ?

Mughals: +5% Discipline, +20% Cavalry Combat Ability.
Rûm: +5% Discipline, +10% Land Morale, +20% Manpower Recovery Speed, +25% Land Force Limit.

Both have 5% discipline, so it's 20% CavCA vs a bigger, faster-regenerating army that lasts longer in battle.

Personally, I'd take any of the three modifiers over 20% CavCA, specially for late game.

 

[Orkonkel]

Are we reading the same set because all I see is 10% morale. How is that "by a long shot" ?

And discipline and manpower recovery and maximum force limit.