Timur vs The Ming

[Hulaoguan]

This post is just to clarify on the " Tartars" whom Yongle had been facing. There were 3 groups of them. Info from EW Mote's Imperial China.

First the Iriyangkhad Mongols in southeastern Mongolia. This group had the closest links to the Ming dynasty. Some of their calvarly actually fought for Yongle.

The second group were the majority of the Mongols, centred at Karakorum. In 1403 a mongol chieftain took seized the throne and took the time " Tartar Khan". He was assasinated and replaced two years later by a Mongol ( Tartar) genreal named Arughtai. He was to be the main enemy to Ming till 1434.

The third group was the Oyirat Confederation, also known as the western Mongols. They were to war on Ming China later. Their leader Esen, son of Arughtai, capturing the Ming emperor Yingzhong in 1449.

 

[Aetius]

I thought Nadir Shah was generally considered "The Last Conqueror".

True I forgot about him.

 

[Yakman]

It probably is worth mentioning that China was not the first target of the campaign. Before attacking China, Timur was going to overrun the Eastern Chagatais of Mughalistan. His army would therefore not even be entering China fresh.

That would not have mattered. Timur's initial army would not have been fresh, but the fluid nature of steppe loyalties would have swelled his ranks with Jagatai warriors eager for Chinese booty.

Do you think Ghengis Khan conquered half the world with men just from Mongolia?

 

[Hulaoguan]

That would not have mattered. Timur's initial army would not have been fresh, but the fluid nature of steppe loyalties would have swelled his ranks with Jagatai warriors eager for Chinese booty.

One thought, Yongle is just as likely to ally with Timur against his Mongolian enemies than fight them. Besides being a warror emperor he also used diplomacy to achieve his goal. Witness his hosting of numerous kings from the South seas that came back on Zheng He's ships.

 

[Yakman]

Timur wanted China, and he was intending to take it.

He would have approved of the following sentiment:

"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will not die, but long after we are gone be a living thing, asserting itself with ever-growing insistence."
-Daniel Burnham, US Architect

Fighting Yongle's war for a bribe was not something that Timur would have considered for an instant.

 

[Endre Fodstad]

It would be a damn cool thing to see though We need more games where you can play as timur!

I for one think it would have been a rather unpleasant sight. Few of Timurs campaigns makes for pleasant reading, let alone seeing.

 

[Cakravarti]

I think timur would have happily taken the bribe. Then once he had conquered the Eastern Chagatai he would have then turned his forces against the Yongle Emperor. Yongle sounds like a formidable opponent but considering Timur's achievements and the men he had beaten, I would put my money on Timur.